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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: teresaq]
#118520
09/01/09 12:40 AM
09/01/09 12:40 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Posts: 5,607
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i wasnt discussing "character". you are.
i am pointing out that for a baby to have thoughts....(already addressed) Right, I am discussing character. And the SOP says thoughts are very much related to character. If you think you can discuss thoughts without discussing character, that reveals a hole in your knowledge of inspired commentary on the matter. If you didn't want to discuss character, you shouldn't have gotten involved when I brought up character. Don't jump into a discussion on character, then say that you're not discussing character. That would be rude.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: teresaq]
#118521
09/01/09 12:45 AM
09/01/09 12:45 AM
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in conclusion: asygo: Here's another quote to ponder: Man was to bear God's image, both in outward resemblance and in character. Christ alone is "the express image" (Hebrews 1:3) of the Father; but man was formed in the likeness of God. {PP 45.2} The image and likeness of God, which was given to man, included character. Are babies born in the image of God, even a little bit? Yes, that image has been marred and well-nigh obliterated, but is there something left of God's image in infants? i cant see how anything you have said proves that babies are capable of thoughts.... nor do i see how a baby having thoughts or not would be necessary for your argument, if there is any validity to your argument. Well, if you don't see how a baby's lack of thoughts impacts how he can have the image of God, the problem is not the validity of my argument but what you think God's image entails. You've said somewhere, IIRC, that all are made in the image of God. Here, you are saying that babies are born with no thoughts. If they are in the image of God, but have no thoughts, then God's image does not include thoughts. "Let this mind be in you." Thoughtless mind? I don't think so.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: teresaq]
#118524
09/01/09 02:02 AM
09/01/09 02:02 AM
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SDA
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Posts: 5,607
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i guess he had thoughts long before he had neurons and brain synapses according to this: For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, ...and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. ... {RH, February 20, 1900 par. 11} Yes, John was filled with the Spirit at birth. the quote leads one to believe that he was filled with the HS while in his mothers womb. you read it as saying "from birth". that one is up for grabs. The SOP says that he was filled with the Spirit "FROM" his mother's womb, not simply "WHILE" he was in there. If he was filled from his mother's womb, wouldn't it stand to reason that he continued that way until his birth, or until he decided to walk in the flesh? Anyway, if that argument seems specious to you, perhaps a quote will do. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his birth. If we live in communion with God, we too may expect the divine Spirit to mould our little ones, even from their earliest moments. {AH 274.3} We have more info in that 2nd sentence. Children can be molded by the Spirit "from their earliest moments." Can God's molding happen if one has no thoughts?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#118525
09/01/09 02:16 AM
09/01/09 02:16 AM
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i guess he had thoughts long before he had neurons and brain synapses according to this: For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, ...and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. ... {RH, February 20, 1900 par. 11} Teresa, Where in Mrs. White's writings do you find that an unborn baby has no thoughts? If you find her saying it, I will believe it. i return the challenge. where is there any statement where she says babies do have thoughts?
Last edited by teresaq; 09/01/09 02:17 AM. Reason: to separate points
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#118526
09/01/09 02:19 AM
09/01/09 02:19 AM
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As for the science you presented, it appears to ignore a multitude of others who say differently. Here are just two of the many quotes I found online. I have yet to find even one statement saying babies are born without synapses,...In contrast to a synapse-less condition, it appears that there may be far more synapses than are put to use. who said babies dont have synapses? http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=118524&page=6 #118347 teresaq: while babies are definitely human their brains are incapable of "thought". thought requires knowing language. knowing language requires a learning process and the right synapses. this happens over time sorry for the large size, just thought it might be clearly seen what i did say, instead of what i didnt say. if it isnt "seen" this time then i will have to assume there is another reason for misstating what i have said.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#118527
09/01/09 02:23 AM
09/01/09 02:23 AM
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Regardless of the science, Biblically-speaking we are sinners from the moment of conception. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalms 51:5, KJV) This, of course, is one reason the Catholic church has promoted the idea that Mary was conceived sin-free, so that Jesus would not be conceived "in sin." But this doesn't make much sense, because it seems Mary's mother would have had to have been so-conceived for Mary to not have been thus ill-conceived, and so on up the line. So much for immaculate conception theory. ok, and this has what to do with whether unborn and newborn babies have thoughts or not?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: asygo]
#118528
09/01/09 02:32 AM
09/01/09 02:32 AM
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i wasnt discussing "character". you are.
i am pointing out that for a baby to have thoughts....(already addressed) Right, I am discussing character. And the SOP says thoughts are very much related to character. If you think you can discuss thoughts without discussing character, that reveals a hole in your knowledge of inspired commentary on the matter.
If you didn't want to discuss character, you shouldn't have gotten involved when I brought up character. Don't jump into a discussion on character, then say that you're not discussing character. That would be rude. this is sounding like it is dealing with the person as opposed to the issue.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: asygo]
#118529
09/01/09 02:35 AM
09/01/09 02:35 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
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in conclusion: asygo: Here's another quote to ponder: Man was to bear God's image, both in outward resemblance and in character. Christ alone is "the express image" (Hebrews 1:3) of the Father; but man was formed in the likeness of God. {PP 45.2} The image and likeness of God, which was given to man, included character. Are babies born in the image of God, even a little bit? Yes, that image has been marred and well-nigh obliterated, but is there something left of God's image in infants? i cant see how anything you have said proves that babies are capable of thoughts.... nor do i see how a baby having thoughts or not would be necessary for your argument, if there is any validity to your argument. Well, if you don't see how a baby's lack of thoughts impacts how he can have the image of God, the problem is not the validity of my argument but what you think God's image entails. this sounds like dealing with the person as opposed to the issue.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: asygo]
#118530
09/01/09 02:45 AM
09/01/09 02:45 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
Very Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
|
|
in conclusion: asygo: Here's another quote to ponder: Man was to bear God's image, both in outward resemblance and in character. Christ alone is "the express image" (Hebrews 1:3) of the Father; but man was formed in the likeness of God. {PP 45.2} The image and likeness of God, which was given to man, included character. Are babies born in the image of God, even a little bit? Yes, that image has been marred and well-nigh obliterated, but is there something left of God's image in infants? i cant see how anything you have said proves that babies are capable of thoughts.... nor do i see how a baby having thoughts or not would be necessary for your argument, if there is any validity to your argument. You've said somewhere, IIRC, that all are made in the image of God. Here, you are saying that babies are born with no thoughts. If they are in the image of God, but have no thoughts, then God's image does not include thoughts. i dont know what iirc means so ill let that go. that may have been the points of the pioneers which would be what they said, not i. otherwise i have no recollection of saying what you say i did, nor why i would have said that. if it was the pioneers quotes you are thinking of, they were stressing that man was created in the physical image of God. but it was an adult that was created not a newborn baby. asygo: "Let this mind be in you." Thoughtless mind? I don't think so. isnt that why we dont baptize infants? or has that changed?  how would anyone know if the baby had accepted Christ? or if the baby had the "mind of Christ"?
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth
[Re: teresaq]
#118536
09/01/09 03:23 AM
09/01/09 03:23 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
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|
i wasnt discussing "character". you are.
i am pointing out that for a baby to have thoughts....(already addressed) Right, I am discussing character. And the SOP says thoughts are very much related to character. If you think you can discuss thoughts without discussing character, that reveals a hole in your knowledge of inspired commentary on the matter.
If you didn't want to discuss character, you shouldn't have gotten involved when I brought up character. Don't jump into a discussion on character, then say that you're not discussing character. That would be rude. this is sounding like it is dealing with the person as opposed to the issue. It's dealing with a person who is speaking on a topic she doesn't quite understand, and seemingly doesn't even want to talk about.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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