this has really caught my attention and im going to read my bible with this in mind.

when God says He will do something studying the context will tell us if it is prophetic as to what will happen and not as to how it will happen.

A number of people have made similar statements which I have never understood why.

Could you explain what this means.
What would the opposite mean?

I'm just quoting from GC 36.



Again, this is GC 36.



IMO, this is just an awful view of God's character!! Using nature like a smart bomb. I'm really sorry you have this idea, and just hope and pray you can see that this is nothing like what Jesus Christ lived or taught. When asked if He should cause fire to fall from heaven and destroy the Samaritans, like a smart bomb, as you put it, Jesus Christ said, "You know not of what spirit you are."



I believe God manages the forces of nature, and have said this many times, and have not the slightest idea as to why you are confused regarding this point. The only thing I can think of is that, in your view, for God to manage nature He has to use it like a smart bomb, to cause death and destruction.



This is your language, not mind. If you're trying to express something I've argued, you should use my language, and make points I've made.



Have I said this? If so, where?



This is pretty illogical. One could say just as well, "Since you haven’t explained how you think inanimate forces cause death and destruction it must be assumed you are implying they are not self-acting.



No it's not!!! I've explicitly said that nature is not self-acting, to counteract what *you* were saying. I pointed this out to you, and quoted the passage to you. So for you to say that "the assumption is perfectly logical" is nuts. It's only "logical" if you think I would believe something which is exactly the opposite of what I've said. And that's not the least bit logical. "Logical" would be come up with a theory where nature is NOT self-acting.



So?



What?! Of course it's accurate! It's my view, and I know what's an accurate summary of it. Who are you to contradict this?



So what if this were true? This wouldn't mean my summary of what I believe isn't accurate. I should certainly know better than you.



Why are you doing this, MM? I don't understand this! I've said repeatedly that God is managing nature, and I've NEVER said that He wasn't.

I think a difficulty here is that you assume that if some natural disaster happens, and God is managing nature, that means that God made that thing happen. Or, to put it another way, if some bad thing happens in nature, and God did not do it, then God could not have been managing nature. This may be your way of seeing things, but it's certainly not mine.



God manages nature, of course, as I've repeated said.

I think it would be better if you quoted me, MM, and stop saying I'm saying things directly contrary to what I've said.

Tom,

I think some of your reluctance to accept that God would be directly behind the plagues, as opposed to just withdrawing His protection to allow mayhem to ensue arising from Satanic agencies, natural causes, or mankind's own hands, may have something to do with fitting a proper perspective to the reason for such actions on God's part. It is true that God is loving. He does not force our will. But, and this is because He is loving, God is also just. He is fair. And He will not allow His loyal subjects to be victimized without a recompense.

The following statement from Mrs. White clarifies the conditions of earth during which the last plagues will come.



It seems, in light of this statement, that it would be counterproductive to getting the message out to believe that God is not behind the plagues in the first place. When we understand the true Source of the plagues, as well as the true reason for them, we are in a better position to escape them. This is, then, an important topic to understand properly.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Satan is not free to wreak havoc. God is in control - not Satan, not sin, and not sinners. Satan lacks the creative power and authority to manage the forces of nature. Nature is not self-acting. It totally depends on God to behave the way it does. The opposite would mean everything would cease exist or function.

Okay. But do you think God employs the forces of nature to cause death and destruction? And, do you think He employs them like smart bombs to ensure the resulting death and destruction does not exceed His will and established limits? Please be thorough and forthcoming in your answer. Thank you.

BTW, if you struggle with the word "employ" please keep the following inspired use of the word in mind:

The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from Heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {3SG 82.2}


And you certainly haven't explained how or why you think it happens. Please take some time to explain how and why, for example, fire proceeding from the presence of God destroyed Nadab and Abihu. What happened that all of a sudden fire struck them down?

"Nadab and Abihu, by drinking wine, beclouded their reasoning faculties, and so lost their sense of sacred things, that they thought they could as well offer common fire as sacred. God did not excuse them because the brain was confused. Fire from his presence destroyed them in their sin. {4aSG 125.1}

It's not the reasons I'm primarily concerned with here, but the mechanism. There are a thousand dangers from which God protects us, all of them unseen. It's entirely unnecessary for God to cause pain (i.e. excruciating pain for the purpose of punishment), or destruction, or death, in addition to being contrary to His character to do so.



It's not counterproductive. The third angels' message has to do with the destruction of that sin/Satan causes. God, by his grace, protects us from sin/Satan. But there comes a point when, when light is rejected, and the Spirit disdained, that God eventually allows those He is protecting to experience the results of their choice.



Surely! Sin is the cause of these things, and if we allow God to save us from it, we will escape the plagues. I'd expect you agree with this. Where we differ is that I'm saying:

1.If we allow God to save us from sin, we will be saved from the devastating effects of sin/Satan.

while you are saying:

2.If we allow God to save us from sin, we will be saved from the devastating effects of God Himself (i.e., the judgments of God, punishing those who don't heed His word).

So I see God as sending us a message of mercy, warning us of the measures we need to take to be saved from evil forces, whereas you see Him as sending a message of mercy, warning us of the measures we need to take to be saved from good forces.

I think what I'm suggesting portrays God in a far more positive light, and is in harmony with Jesus' life and teachings.

mm, how have you reconciled this with your understanding?

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls.

He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows.

When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment.
It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer.

But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah,

and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same.

Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some, in order to further his own designs; and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {CH 460.2}


While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies,

he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation.

Even now he is at work.

In accidents and calamities by sea and by land,

in great conflagrations,

in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms,

in tempests,

floods,

cyclones,

tidal waves,

and earthquakes,

in every place and in a thousand forms,

Satan is exercising his power.

He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow.

He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence.

These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous.

Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "The haughty people . . . do languish.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isaiah 24:4, 5. {CH 461.1}

I do not believe God stops managing the forces of nature and turns it over to Satan. Do you?

Job 1:12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
...
Job 1:16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
...
Job 1:19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house.
...
Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
...
Job 2:5 But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face."
Job 2:6 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."

There seems to be a contradiction in this as much as who killed Saul.

Did God send fire from Heaven or did Satan? How about the wind? If God is doing this, why did he tell Satan that everything is in his hands? If Satan is managing the forces of nature, why did God say, "incited me against him"?