This is what I'm trying to pin down. "He confronted the same temptations" but did He confront them with the same "unwillingness" that we have? IOW, did He confront them with the same "corruption of an unsanctified heart" that so many have to deal with?


Your answer, I believe, is that Jesus did not have the same unwillingness, nor did He have the same corruption of an unsanctified heart. Is that right?

Scripture tells us He was tempted in all points as we are. Ellen White echoes this, and adds that we have nothing to bear that Christ did not endure, and that if we did, Satan would make capital of that, arguing that God's grace was not sufficient for us to overcome.

A. T. Jones in his 1895 sermons develops this theme (i.e., the them of Christ's bearing our sins, while in our sinful flesh) in a number of sermons from about #14 on. Prescott, in this same time period, emphasized similar themes, also bring out Christ as our representative, based on His having come in sinful flesh, overcoming in our flesh, and thus preparing the way for us (which teaching was specifically endorsed by Ellen White).

To come back to your specific point, Christ had to confront unwillingness (and one could add other things, such as selfishness) as we must, but in His case it was not His own that He confronted, but ours. Isa. 53 brings out that Christ was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Fifield, Jones and Prescott all made the application of Isa. 53 to Christ in this context we're speaking of, pointing out that it was our sins which Christ bore, and, in so doing, He confronted our sorrows, griefs, temptations, etc.

Regarding Christ Himself not having the same unwillingness or same corruption of an unsanctified heart, of course He didn't have these things Himself, as He never sinned, but He, as our substitute, bore our sins, while in sinful flesh, and thus confronted the temptations and faced the burdens that we do.

Tom,

At first I thought you were saying No, then you ended with saying Yes. You're not answering in a way that helps me understand your position as it relates to what I'm seeing. Let me try another way.


When I am tempted, I could truthfully say, "MY real difficulty arises from the corruption of MY unsanctified heart, and MY unwillingness to submit to the control of God."

When Jesus was tempted, could He truthfully say, "MY real difficulty arises from the corruption of MY unsanctified heart, and MY unwillingness to submit to the control of God"?

Or, if I'm hearing you right, would He truthfully say, "MY real difficulty arises from the corruption of ARNOLD'S unsanctified heart, and ARNOLD'S unwillingness to submit to the control of God"?

Yes, Christ's real difficulties arose from our sin. He bore our sins in sinful flesh, which enabled Him to be tempted in all points as we are tempted. The same temptations we find to be difficult, He found to be difficult as well.

Did you look at the sermons of A. T. Jones I mentioned? That would help understand my position.

Mike, your quotation cuts short of the Canaan border. Read on -

"Think of Christ's humiliation. He took upon himself fallen, suffering human nature, degraded and defiled by sin. He took our sorrows, bearing our grief and shame. He endured all the temptations wherewith man is beset. He united humanity with divinity: a divine spirit dwelt in a temple of flesh." (4BC 1147.4)
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I think you pinned it well Arnold. And the only way to be "willing" and have a "sanctified heart" is by being born again with Christ spirit.



This is another great quote. To me, it's saying that it was Christ "divine spirit" that dwell in a human flesh/body. Am I reading it correctly? Do we have biblical support of this?

Moreso, Christ also lived a life of submission to His Father's spirit/will. Jn 14:10, 1Jo 5:1

1Jn 4:2,3 says those who confess NOT that Christ came in the "FLESH" is not of God and it is "that spirit of the ANTICHRIST".
Can anyone share some thoughts in regards to this verse and how it relate to this topic?

I have not read them. I will try, as time permits.

Your answer is as I expected. So I guess I understand you a little bit. However, that brings up a host of other questions, impacting many topics. I'm sure that is as you expected. We'll get to those as time permits.

Elegant, and accurate. Spot on.


Is that experience limited to Christ? Or can we have the same unity of humanity with divinity? Can the divine spirit dwell in our flesh?

Did you mean "Christ's divine spirit" (aka the "Holy Spirit") or that Christ was the divine spirit? (i.e. "Christ, the divine spirit").



Here's something related to this:



So the short answer to your question is that our pioneers in general held that the 1 John 4 passage you're asking about referred to those who believe that Jesus Christ did not come in such flesh as we have (i.e., sinful flesh; or, to put it another way, that Christ came in the nature of unfallen Adam).

Hi Tom, Can I point out something that is off topic... you know when you reply to someone, you do something that the header doesn't reflect the name of the person you are replying to. I don't know how you do it, but I've noticed this several times. It's no big issue, but it's a little confusing. For instance in this post, it appears you replied to Arnold when in fact you replied to me.


I don't know, really. I'm trying to understand EGW quote. The quote does say "a divine spirit". Wasn't it Christ reincarnated in a human body? So to me, it is saying Jesus' "divine Spirit" Jn 1:14 ("And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us") Now we know from the Bible that Jesus submitted to the Father's will and the Father was "in" Jesus. Jn 6:57,14:11, 1Jh 5:1

So at the same time that Jesus' had his own "divine spirit", he had the Father's spirit dwelling in Him.

Now, I believe that Jesus' physical brain that he inherited was degenerative. Let's replace degenerative with EGW words "degraded and defiled by sin"; however, Jesus spirit was never corrupt and remained divine.

That's how I'm understanding it. What do you think she meant there?