I think we way underestimate the dangers God protects us from, so we mistakenly think it's necessary for Him to "smite" someone from His own hand, when all He needs to do is withdraw His protection from one of these unseen dangers.

T:I think we way underestimate the dangers God protects us from, so we mistakenly think it's necessary for Him to "smite" someone from His own hand, when all He needs to do is withdraw His protection from one of these unseen dangers.

R:That's the point.

There is no difference whatsoever between one thing and the other.

As I've said previously, what makes the difference is the motivation for doing things.

Eli had greatly erred in permitting his sons to minister in holy office. By excusing their course, on one pretext and another, he became blinded to their sins; but at last they reached a pass where he could no longer hide his eyes from the crimes of his sons. The people complained of their violent deeds, and the high priest was grieved and distressed. He dared remain silent no longer. But his sons had been brought up to think of no one but themselves, and now they cared for no one else. They saw the grief of their father, but their hard hearts were not touched. They heard his mild admonitions, but they were not impressed, nor would they change their evil course though warned of the consequences of their sin. Had Eli dealt justly with his wicked sons, they would have been rejected from the priestly office and punished with death. {CC 142.2} [Conflict and Courage (1970)]

Eli had long known that his sons were not what God would have them. He knew that they did not give to Israel an example worthy of imitation. But he was growing old, and the burden of official care rested heavily upon him. Some one must assist him in bearing this responsibility. Should he deal justly with his sons, they would be speedily rejected from the priestly office, and punished with death. He dreaded thus to bring public disgrace and condemnation upon them. By passing over their crimes again and again without punishment, his own abhorrence of sin was lessened, and in his efforts to shield them, he became accessory to their guilt. {ST, December 1, 1881 par. 16}
[The Signs of the Times ]

Indulgent Parents Disqualify for Heaven's Order.-- There is perfect order in heaven, perfect concord and agreement. If parents so neglect to bring their children under proper authority here, how can they hope that they will be considered fit companions for the holy angels in a world of peace and harmony? {CG 229.3}

Those who have had no respect for order or discipline in this life would have no respect for the order which is observed in heaven. They can never be admitted into heaven, for all worthy of an entrance there will love order and respect discipline. The characters formed in this life will determine the future destiny. When Christ shall come, He will not change the character of any individual. . . . Parents should neglect no duty on their part to benefit their children. They should so train them that they may be a blessing to society here and may reap the reward of eternal life hereafter. {CG 229.4}

Eli did not manage his household according to God's rules for family government. He followed his own judgment. The fond father overlooked the faults and sins of his sons in their childhood, flattering himself that after a time they would outgrow their evil tendencies. Many are now making a similar mistake. They think they know a better way of training their children than that which God has given in His Word. They foster wrong tendencies in them, urging as an excuse, "They are too young to be punished. Wait till they become older and can be reasoned with." Thus wrong habits are left to strengthen until they become second nature. The children grow up without restraint, with traits of character that are a lifelong curse to them and are liable to be reproduced in others. {CG 231.2}

Teresa,

Of course God no longer protected Saul. There would be no point in protecting someone you were killing, would there?

The message itself is sufficient evidence of its origin. Its object was not to lead Saul to repentance, but to urge him on to ruin; and this is not the work of God, but of Satan.

Furthermore, the act of Saul in consulting a sorceress is cited in Scripture as one reason why he was rejected by God and abandoned to destruction:
"Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." 1 Chronicles 10:13, 14. Here it is distinctly stated that Saul inquired of the familiar spirit, not of the Lord. He did not communicate with Samuel, the prophet of God; but through the sorceress he held intercourse with Satan. Satan could not present the real Samuel, but he did present a counterfeit, that served his purpose of deception. {PP 683.2}

ellen white seems to understand the text in question to mean that the Lord no longer protected saul.

"and abandoned to destruction":
(bold color for ready visibility, only)

Chap. 153 - Sanity Almost Gone

And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. 1 Sam. 15:26. {CC 159.1}

When Saul saw that Samuel came no more to instruct him, he knew that the Lord had rejected him for his wicked course, and his character seemed ever after to be marked with extremes. His servants . . . at times dared not approach him, for he seemed like an insane man, violent and abusive. He often seemed filled with remorse. He was melancholy, and often afraid where there was no danger. . . . He was always full of anxiety, and when in his gloomy moods he wished not to be disturbed, and at times would suffer none to approach him. . . . He would repeat prophetically sayings against himself with distracted energy, even in the presence of his lords and of the people. {CC 159.2}

The spirit of evil was upon Saul. He felt that his doom had been sealed by the solemn message of his rejection from the throne of Israel. His departure from the plain requirements of God was bringing its sure results. He did not turn, and repent, and humble his heart before God, but opened it to receive every suggestion of the enemy. He listened to every false witness, eagerly receiving anything that was detrimental to the character of David, hoping that he might find an excuse for manifesting his increasing envy and hatred of him who had been anointed to the throne of Israel. {CC 165.2}

The Lord never turned away a soul that came to Him in sincerity and humility. Why did he turn Saul away unanswered? The king had by his own act forfeited the benefits of all the methods of inquiring of God. He had rejected the counsel of Samuel the prophet; he had exiled David, the chosen of God; he had slain the priests of the Lord. . . . He had sinned away the Spirit of grace, and could he be answered by dreams and revelations from the Lord? Saul did not turn to God with humility and repentance. It was not pardon for sin and reconciliation with God, that he sought, but deliverance from his foes. By his own stubbornness and rebellion he had cut himself off from God. There could be no return but by the way of penitence and contrition; but the proud monarch, in his anguish and despair, determined to seek help from another source. . . . It was told the king that a woman who had a familiar spirit was living in concealment at Endor. . . . Disguising himself, Saul went forth by night with but two attendants, to seek the retreat of the sorceress. . . . {CC 171.2} [Conflict and Courage (1970)]

Wherever the intercourse between heaven and earth has been free and abundant, and God's gifts [have] been unappreciated, the long-forbearance and patience of God will finally be exhausted. Then the once blessed and once favored are abandoned and forsaken of God. It is a terrible thing to exhaust the divine patience. ... {19MR 220.3}

Teresa,

Saul was abandoned by God long before the fateful day of his demise. Ellen White says that his visit to the sorceress was just one reason for this. There were other reasons.

Here are a few:

He did not wait for Samuel to offer sacrifice.
He did not annihilate the Amalekites as God directed.
He took king Agag captive, a war trophy, and much cattle, against God's express command.
He nearly executed his own son when Jonathan and his armorbearer had gone out in faith and by God's blessing won a stunning victory against the Philistines, unbeknownst to him and unawares of his command.

[EGW]
He had rejected the counsel of Samuel the prophet;
he had exiled David, the chosen of God;
he had slain the priests of the Lord.
He had sinned away the Spirit of grace...


The following quote is for reference purposes. Note that Samuel told Saul God had rejected him more than two decades before Saul died. God rejected Saul before David had been anointed, before David met King Saul, before David killed Goliath, before Saul tried to kill David, before David married Saul's daughter, before David was hunted by Saul and his men, before a great many things happened in the story. Note how God's rejection of Saul affected him, according to Mrs. White.
...
What happened to Saul may happen to any of us.



The lesson to be learned is to follow God carefully, and not be careless in carrying out the duties He has asked of us. If we do not live up to the light He has loving provided us, His patience will eventually be exhausted, and He will give us up.

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (2 Thessalonians 1:9, KJV)

Teresa,

Of course God no longer protected Saul. There would be no point in protecting someone you were killing, would there?

R:What I'm saying is, Does anyone who lets someone die have a good motivation? And does anyone who kills have a bad motivation?
What would you think about a person who sees someone dying, has the power to rescue that person, and simply stands there, observing it, or turns around and goes away?

There is no difference whatsoever between one thing and the other. As I've said previously, what makes the difference is the motivation for doing things.

Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work.(GC 35)

GC:The lesson to be learned is to follow God carefully, and not be careless in carrying out the duties He has asked of us. If we do not live up to the light He has loving provided us, His patience will eventually be exhausted, and He will give us up.

God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. (DA 764)