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Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Elle] #118845
09/06/09 04:43 AM
09/06/09 04:43 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Elle:Now, I believe that Jesus' physical brain that he inherited was degenerative. Let's replace degenerative with EGW words "degraded and defiled by sin"; however, Jesus spirit was never corrupt and remained divine.

That's how I'm understanding it. What do you think she meant there?


I think she means the Holy Spirit. Christ united fallen humanity with divinity, by assuming our sinful nature and always submitting to the Father's will, allowing the Holy Spirit to dwell in Him at all times.



Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Tom] #118846
09/06/09 04:45 AM
09/06/09 04:45 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Elle, here's something W. W. Prescott wrote which may be of interest.

Quote:
But since the first Adam took his place, there has been a change, and humanity is sinful humanity. The power of righteousness has been lost. To redeem man from the place into which he had fallen, Jesus Christ comes, and takes the very flesh now borne by humanity; He comes in sinful flesh, and takes the case where Adam tried it and failed.(The Word Became Flesh, a sermon which Ellen White endorsed)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Tom] #118847
09/06/09 11:00 AM
09/06/09 11:00 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Tom
Quote:
Elle:Now, I believe that Jesus' physical brain that he inherited was degenerative. Let's replace degenerative with EGW words "degraded and defiled by sin"; however, Jesus spirit was never corrupt and remained divine.

That's how I'm understanding it. What do you think she meant there?

I think she means the Holy Spirit. Christ united fallen humanity with divinity, by assuming our sinful nature and always submitting to the Father's will, allowing the Holy Spirit to dwell in Him at all times.

To help us better understand each other, let's define some terminology. I understand their's lots of variation of these definition, but just to lay out some common ground to proceed in defining between spirits :

Soul : - Body(all physical aspects) + Man's Spirit.

Or Man can be define as : Body + Spirit + Soul (1 Tim 5:3)

Living Soul : - Man + God's breath (Gen 2:7)

Let's define the different Spirits:

1. Man's Spirit : Man has it's own spirit where affection, emotion, will, desires, etc... seats

2. Satan's and Evil Angels Spirits : They are spirits that influence us.

3. Godhead Spirit's : Jesus is a seperate person from the Father, and both possess their own Spirit. Both of their Spirit are Divine.

4. Holy Spirit : Let restrict this definition as God's Spirit that animates all living creatures which is refered as the "breath of God". It is also a "Divine spirit" and is a seperate entity from man's spirit.

Coming back in understanding each other and EGW's quote:

Q1 : Do you agree that Jesus was a man and being as such possessed his own spirit? (Which is apart and seperate entity from the Holy Spirit's and from the Father's Spirit.)

Q2 : Do you believe that Jesus' Divine spirit that He possessed before reincarnation, was no longer divine when incarnated?

Q3 : Can you clarify your understanding of Jesus' own Spirit when he became a man?


Blessings
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Elle] #118857
09/06/09 03:52 PM
09/06/09 03:52 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I think the "divine spirit" spoken of in the text you asked about is "the Holy Spirit" the third person of the Godhead.

Regarding your question, I think Jesus possessed his own spirit as a man, as we do. I don't believe Jesus Christ was reincarnated. Before His incarnation, I believe Jesus had His own "spirit," not "Spirit," and that spirit was a function of his mind, the things you spoke of, affections, emotions, etc."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Tom] #118860
09/06/09 04:45 PM
09/06/09 04:45 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
Elle's Q1 : Do you agree that Jesus was a man and being as such possessed his own spirit? (Which is apart and seperate entity from the Holy Spirit's and from the Father's Spirit.)

Tom: Regarding your question, I think Jesus possessed his own spirit as a man, as we do.

I agree with "Jesus possessed his own spirit as a man". I'm reluctant to agree to the "as we do". Up to now, I'm more lenient to believe that Jesus' spirit was divine, however his faculties(brain) was just "as we do".

Quote:
Elle's Q2 : Do you believe that Jesus' Divine spirit that He possessed before reincarnation, was no longer divine when incarnated?

Tom: I don't believe Jesus Christ was reincarnated.
My typo mistake, and I too don't believe Jesus was reincarnated. I meant incarnated here. However you didn't answer the question, nor in your answer of #Q3. I have rephrased the question.. see #Q4 below.

Quote:
Elle's Q3 : Can you clarify your understanding of Jesus' own Spirit when he became a man?

Tom : Before His incarnation, I believe Jesus had His own "spirit," not "Spirit," and that spirit was a function of his mind, the things you spoke of, affections, emotions, etc."
Ok, however, you haven't answer the question so we can understand each other. I'm trying to understand if you believe Jesus' spirit on earth was divine or not. This question was for you to expand on that concept if my Q2 didn't do the trick. So let me rephrase the question:

Q4 : Is Jesus' spirit, while being on earth before his ressurection, divine or not?

To clarify Q4, I'm not referring to the Holy Spirit, nor the Father's Spirit dwelling in Jesus at that time, but Jesus' spirit as a man on earth?


Blessings
Re: Jesus' Humanity and Nature on Earth [Re: Elle] #118861
09/06/09 05:19 PM
09/06/09 05:19 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
I agree with "Jesus possessed his own spirit as a man". I'm reluctant to agree to the "as we do". Up to now, I'm more lenient to believe that Jesus' spirit was divine, however his faculties(brain) was just "as we do".


Jesus was both divine and human. As a human being, his spirit was human, like ours. As God, he had a spirit.

Quote:
My typo mistake, and I too don't believe Jesus was reincarnated. I meant incarnated here. However you didn't answer the question


I answered the question by saying I didn't believe Jesus was reincarnated.

Quote:
Elle's Q3 : Can you clarify your understanding of Jesus' own Spirit when he became a man?

Tom : Before His incarnation, I believe Jesus had His own "spirit," not "Spirit," and that spirit was a function of his mind, the things you spoke of, affections, emotions, etc."

Elle:Ok, however, you haven't answer the question so we can understand each other. I'm trying to understand if you believe Jesus' spirit on earth was divine or not.


As a man, His spirit was human. As God, His spirit was divine. But I would still call it "spirit" not "Spirit." "Spirit" would refer to the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
This question was for you to expand on that concept if my Q2 didn't do the trick. So let me rephrase the question:

Q4 : Is Jesus' spirit, while being on earth before his ressurection, divine or not?

To clarify Q4, I'm not referring to the Holy Spirit, nor the Father's Spirit dwelling in Jesus at that time, but Jesus' spirit as a man on earth?


Jesus' spirit as a man was human, just as His human mind was human, and His human body was human. His divine mind was divine, and His divine spirit was divine. If you simply say "Jesus' spirit" without any sort of qualification (such as, for example, Jesus Christ in His divinity, or Jesus Christ as God) this would be understood as Jesus' human spirit.

Jesus set aside the prerogatives of divinity, and lived as a man, totally dependent upon His Father. His divine attributes were acquiescent, so when we speak of His mind, or spirit, or whatever, it's His human whatever that we have in mind, in general.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Page 15 of 15 1 2 13 14 15

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