Can you use the Bible alone to prove your point, namely, that the GC is primarily about God's character? Also, do you agree with the other points I made (reposted below)? If not, why not? Please elaborate.

Amen!

Yes, I also appreciate Rosangela's post. Well said.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Hi Everyone

I've been too busy to post and also to read most this thread. I just caught the last two pages.

For sure what Rosangela has posted is true, however, I agree with Tom's emphasis that the Great Controversy is primilary about God's Character. Everything is about God's character, even the Law.


I believe we are still doing the same thing with our mis-conception of Righteousness by faith and the Gospel. Sadly, our human nature is sub-consciously so prone to earn our salvation. We think we are walking in the "faith", but we are not. At least Job was honest about his mis-conception about God. Read Job 10 and so on.

Regarding the theme that the Great Controversy is about God's character, as I mentioned, someone wrote two books on this subject which comprise over 1,000 pages. One is called "Satan and the Problem of Evil" and the other "God at War." Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll borrow from the author. I'll do this without the quote box, as I find it easier to read long quotes without the box. Following this paragraph are his words:

Old Testament Support for the Warfare Worldview

Rebuking Hostile Waters
Satan plays a minor role in the Old Testament relative to the New Testament. Instead, the warfare worldview in the Old Testament is expressed in terms of God’s conflict with hostile waters, cosmic monsters, and other gods.Like their Ancient Near Eastern neighbors, ancient Jews believed that the earth was founded upon and encircled by water (e.g. Ps. 104:2–3, 5), and they often depicted these waters as a chaotic or hostile force. Whereas other cultures credited one of their chief god(s) with preserving order against hostile forces of chaos, biblical authors always acknowledge Yahweh as earth’s defender. (1) Yahweh’s “rebuke” causes the hostile waters to “flee.” It is “at the sound of [his] thunder” that “they take to flight” (Ps. 104:7). Indeed, these hostile waters take flight at the very sight of God (Ps. 77:16). The Lord assigns rebel waters a “boundary that they may not pass…” (v. 9, cf. Prov. 8:27–29; Job 38:6–11). It is the Lord and none other who defeats these enemies, who tramples on the sea with his warring horses (Hab. 3:15), and who sits enthroned above “the mighty waters” (Ps. 29:3–4, 10).

Biblical authors are confident that the Lord is capable of containing and ultimately defeating these rebel waters. But there is no suggestion here that Yahweh’s war against these forces is prescripted or inauthentic. To the contrary, as a number of exegetes have noted, biblical authors exalt God’s sovereignty precisely because they are certain that these raging forces are real, formidable foes. (2)

Defeating cosmic monsters: Leviathan and Rahab
Ancient Hebrew authors also expressed the Creator’s warfare against cosmic monsters such as Leviathan and Rahab. In Ancient Near Eastern mythology, Leviathan was a ferocious sea serpent encircling the earth. He had many heads (Ps. 74:14) and could blow smoke out of his nose(s) and fire out of his mouth(s) (Job 41:18–21). Humans could not defeat or control this powerful beast, for their weapons were useless against it. Indeed, this monster could eat iron like straw and crush bronze as if it were decayed timber (Job 41:26–27). Nevertheless, biblical authors were confident that Leviathan was no match for Yahweh. At the time of creation as well as in subsequent battles against Israel’s enemies, Yahweh “crushed the heads of the dragons in the waters [and] crushed the heads of Leviathan” (Ps. 74:14). In looking forward to God’s ultimate victory that will free creation from evil, Isaiah writes: “On that day the LORD with his cruel and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea” (Isa. 27:1). (3)

Rahab also inhabited the waters that encircle the earth and threatened the world but was no match for Yahweh. When Yahweh expressed his wrath against evil, “the helpers of Rahab bowed beneath him” (Job 9:13). In the primordial past Yahweh’s power “churned up the sea,” his wisdom “cut Rahab to pieces,” and his hand “pierced the gliding serpent” (Job 26:12–13). The Psalmist also celebrated Yahweh’s sovereignty over “the raging sea” by announcing that he had “crushed Rahab like a carcass” and “scattered [his] enemies with [his] mighty arm” (Ps. 89:9–10). In similar fashion Isaiah reassured himself that Yahweh would “awake” to deliver Israel by remembering that in the primal past he had “cut Rahab to pieces” and “pierced the dragon” (Isa. 51:9).

Contrary to the convictions of most contemporary western people, but in keeping with the basic assumptions of ancient people and primordial people groups today, Old Testament authors did not make a sharp distinction between “spiritual” and “physical” realities. The world “above” and the world “below” were seen as intertwined. Hence biblical authors frequently see battles between nations as participating in God’s on-going battle with cosmic forces. For example, the evil character and threatening power of Rahab on a cosmic level was understood to be revealed in and channeled through the nation of Egypt (Ps. 87:4; Isa. 30:7; cf. Ezek. 29:3; 32:2; Jere. 51:34).

Thus, when Israel defeated an opponent this was sometimes construed as the Lord once again defeating cosmic forces of chaos (Isa. 17:12–14). When Yahweh freed the children of Israel from Egypt, for example, this was considered his defeat of the raging waters (Hab. 3:12–13, cf. Nah. 1:4). (4) And when he further delivered Israel by parting the Red Sea, this was seen as a new application of Yahweh’s victory over Rahab (Isa. 51:9–10; Ps. 77:16). (5) Conversely, when Israel was conquered by an enemy this could be described as being devoured by the mighty sea serpent (Jere. 51:34, cf. v. 55). Similarly, David identified the enemies who opposed him as the forces that have opposed God since the beginning of creation (Ps. 93:3–4). Consequently, when his life was threatened he asked the Lord to reenact his primordial victory over sinister cosmic forces on his behalf. He called upon Yahweh to deliver him “from my enemies and from the deep waters. Do not let the flood sweep over me, or the deep swallow me up” (Ps. 69:14–15). And again, “Stretch out your hand…set me free and rescue me from the mighty waters, from the hand of aliens” (144:7).

Battling the “gods”
Beyond cosmic waters and monsters, Old Testament authors also assumed the existence of multitudes of other powerful heavenly beings called “gods,” the “sons of God,” or less frequently, “angels.” Together they formed a “heavenly council” in which decisions that affected humans were made (1 Kings 22:20; Job 1:6; 2:1; Ps. 82:1; 89:7). They were supposed to carry out God’s will and fight on God’s behalf (Ps. 34:7, 68:17; 82; 103:20; 2 Kings 2:11, 6:16–17; 2 Sam. 5:23–24; Dan. 7:10). For our purposes the most significant aspect of these gods, however, is that they were considered personal agents who exercised a significant influence on the flow of history and who did not necessarily carry out Yahweh’s will. Because they were personal agents, they could choose to oppose God’s will. And sometimes they did.

For example, in opposition to God’s will, some of these “sons of God” copulated with human women and produced hybrid giants in the days prior to the flood (Gen. 6:1–4). In the book of Daniel a “prince of Persia” opposed God’s will by delaying his response to one of Daniel’s prayers (Dan 10). The Lord had to send another powerful angel to battle this “prince” in order to get the message through. Along similar lines, a national god named Chemosh was apparently able to route Israel on behalf of the Moabites as a result of the king of Moab sacrificing his son (2 Kings 3:21–22). (6) Indeed, a case can be made that all the “gods of the nations” were originally servants of God assigned to care for particular nations. But instead of using their position to lead the nations to Yahweh, they made themselves the object of the nation’s allegiance. (7)

Psalm 82 describes the personal nature of these beings as well as their significant influence over what transpires on earth:

“God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
‘How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked?
Give justice to the weak and the orphan;
maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked…’
I say ‘You are gods,
children of the Most High, all of you:
nevertheless, you shall die like mortals,
and fall like any prince.’” (Ps. 82:1–7)

This passage depicts a discussion that transpired in the “heavenly council.” These gods (perhaps national gods) had apparently been given various duties to perform among humans: to help administer justice, to defend the weak, and to help the poor. But at least some of these gods had rebelled and decided to serve the wicked instead. Consequently, Yahweh threatened them with the same fate that befalls mortals and earthly princes. Though they were truly gods, if they didn’t conform to his will, they would die like the mortals they were supposed to protect.

Old Testament authors did not assume that things always went according to God’s plan in the heavenly realm any more than they went according to his plan on earth. While the Lord always accomplishes his general will in the end, there is often significant opposition along the way.

Since this was quite long, I decided to split it up into two parts. This part is the New Testament.


New Testament Support for the Warfare Worldview

Warfare in Jesus’ Ministry
The theme of God striving to establish his sovereign will (his Kingdom) on earth over and against forces that oppose him is prevalent in the New Testament. In keeping with the apocalyptic climate of the time, there are many references to angels at war with God, demons that torment people, and the powerful being who leads this rebellion against the Creator. His name, of course, is Satan.

Jesus refers to Satan as “the prince” (archon) of this present age three times (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11). The term archon was used in secular contexts to denote the highest official in a city or region. (1) When Satan offers Jesus all “authority” over “all the kingdoms of this world,” Jesus does not dispute this claim to authority (Luke 4:5–6). The whole world is “under the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19), for Satan is “the god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4) and “the ruler of the power of the air” (Eph. 2:2).

Jesus taught that those who wish to make headway in tearing down this evil kingdom and in taking back the “property” of this “kingdom” must first tie up “the strong man” who oversees the whole operation (Mark 3:27). This could only be done when “one stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him” and thus “takes away his armor in which he trusted” (Luke 11:22). This is what Jesus understood himself to be doing by his teachings, healings, exorcisms and especially by his death and resurrection. His whole ministry was about overpowering the “fully armed” strong man who guarded “his property” (Luke 11:21)—the earth and its inhabitants who rightfully belong to God.

Every exorcism and every healing—the two activities which most characterized Jesus’ ministry—advanced the kingdom of God over and against the kingdom of Satan. (2) Contrary to any view that suggests disease and demonization somehow serve a divine purpose, Jesus never treated such phenomenon as anything other than the work of the enemy. He revolted against disease and demonization as things that ought to be vanquished by the power of God. When confronted with a woman who had a deformed back, for example, Jesus immediately diagnosed her as being “bound by Satan” and freed her from this bondage (Luke 13:11–16). Jesus often attributed illnesses to demons, and cast out demons of muteness or deafness (Mark 9:25; Luke 11:14). Peter summarized Jesus’ ministry as “doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil” (Acts 10:38).

Jesus tied up the strong man so that he (and later, his Church) could pillage his kingdom. In the context of Jesus’ ministry, the kingdom of God is a warfare concept. “If it is by the finger of God that I cast out the demons,” Jesus teaches, “then the kingdom of God has come to you” (Luke 11:20). Jesus came to “destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8, cf. Heb. 2:14) and to establish the earth as God’s domain.

Warfare in The New Testament Church
Jesus’ ministry indicated that God’s purposes for the world had to be fought for and won. Jesus taught his disciples to pray that God’s will would be done “on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), and this presupposed that, to a significant extent at least, God’s will is not now being done on earth.

Through his ministry of exorcism and healing, and especially through his death and resurrection, he destroyed the devil (1 John 3:8; Heb. 2:14), disarmed the principalities and powers (Col. 2:14–15), and put all God’s enemies under his feet (Eph. 1:22; Heb. 1:13). While Satan has in principle been defeated by Christ, God’s victory has not yet been fully realized on the earth. This is the paradox of the “already/not yet” tension within the New Testament. (3) Applying this victory to the rest of the world is the principle business of the Church, the body of Christ. The Church’s call to apply God’s victory to the world invariably encounters strong opposition from the enemy. Though they believed him to be mortally wounded, New Testament authors never underestimated the power and craftiness of this foe.

Hence the New Testament authors referred to Satan, demons, fallen angels, and various levels of evil principalities and powers as being very active in the world (Eph. 1:21, 3:10; Col. 1:16). Exorcism and healing continued to play an important role in the ministry of the early Church (Acts 3:1–10; 8:6–7, 13; 14:3, 8–10; 19:11–12; 28:5). The world was still in bondage to the evil one (Gal. 1:4; Eph. 5:16; 1 John 5:19). Putting someone outside the Church as a disciplinary measure was construed as turning them over to Satan (1 Cor. 5:1–5; 1 Tim. 1:20, cf. 1 Tim. 5:15).

The devil was portrayed as “a roaring lion” who “prowls around, looking for someone to devour” (1 Pet. 5:8). He was understood to be “the tempter” who influences people to sin (1 Thess. 3:5; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Cor. 7:5; Acts 5:3) and the deceiver who blinds the minds of unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4). Satan was behind all types of false teaching (Gal. 4:8–10; Col. 2:8; 1 Tim. 4:1–5, 1 John 4:1–2; 2 John 7), could appear as an “angel of light” (Gal. 1:8), and even perform “lying wonders and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing” (2 Thess. 2:9–10).

Because of his on-going power, in spite of his mortal wound, Satan was able to hinder the work of the Church, as when he prevented Paul from preaching at Thessalonica (1 Thess. 2:8). He discourages Christians and entraps church leaders (2 Thess. 3:5; 1 Tim. 3:7). He establishes strongholds of deception in the minds of believers which Christians must war against (2 Cor. 10:3–5). And for this reason Paul warns that warriors of God must never be “ignorant of [Satan’s] designs” (2 Cor. 2:11). Indeed, Paul summarizes the Christian life as a battle “against the cosmic powers of this present darkness” (Eph. 6:12, cf. vs. 10–18).

Though New Testament authors expressed great confidence that Jesus had defeated Satan and that Satan and his followers would ultimately be defeated when Christ is enthroned as Lord of the cosmos, they were just as certain that in this present fallen world order God does not always get his way. God desires all to be saved, for example, but many shall perish (1 Tim 2:3–4; Pet 3:9). So too, he wants believers to be conformed to the image of Christ, but our minds and behavior are usually to some degree “conformed to the pattern of the world” and under demonic strongholds (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 10:3–5). His Spirit is a Spirit which can be, and frequently is, resisted by our wills (Eph. 4:30; 1 Thess. 5:19). Clearly, the Lord and his Church continue to face strong opposition in carrying out his will as we seek to establish his Kingdom upon the earth.

I'm not sure whether you have already finished your presentation, but I haven't seen specific references to the theme we have been discussing here. You have claimed that the Great Controversy is primarily about the character of God, although the law is also involved. Then it's this you must establish from Scripture.

To put things in my own words, I would say that Jesus Christ revealed that the purpose of His ministry was the revelation of the Father, and that every single thing that He did was for that purpose. This theme is perhaps most clearly seen in John, where John says that no one has seen God at any time, but His only Son, who knew Him best, has made Him known.

When Phillip suggested, "Show us the Father, and it is enough," Jesus replied, "Have I been with you so long, and you have not known Me? If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father" which I think is a sublime summary of the Gospel in a nutshell (Since I first felt the full force of this statement, I've not been the same).

In Jesus' prayer in chapter 17, He declared that He had completed His mission, which was to manifest God's name, to glorify Him, what we would call, in our language, "revealing His character." So we see that the whole purpose of Jesus Christ's mission was the revelation of God's character. Every word of every description of Christ, whether His words or acts, speak to us of that mission; to reveal the Father.

Yes, we can find a passage here or there which speaks of the law, but this doesn't even come to the point of paling in comparison to the entirety of the revelation of Christ, *all* of which was about revealing the Father.

Tx Tom, for bringing that up. With my brief reading, I think that's an important point that author is bringing. As a SDA we tend to view our Savior almost as solely someone saving us from the penalty of sin, and lack to view him as someone who saves us from the mouth of the devouring lion. Our Church does definetly puts a lot of emphasis on the law making us lops sided and missing on the big picture.

I would like to make a similar point but from another angle by clarify my earlier post. Sorry I wrote that on the fly and I felt that it needed a little more "meat" to it.

GC depicted in Book of Job
We know that the book of Job is where the GC is depicted. What's interesting is Job didn't know about the GC. As far as Job is concern, he is "blameless".(Job 9:15-24;19:23,24;34:5; 35:1; etc) and God in unjustly punishing him(9:29-31;10:2,3;19:21;34:9; etc.)

Wrong conception of God
Job's conception or view of God is that God blesses(or saves) the "righteous"(those who do right or do the good works) and punishes the "wicked"(Job 10:14,15; ). Job's 3 friends believes the same, and that's why they keep on telling Job that he must of done something wrong for this calamity to fall on him. Above all, Satan is very successful in using this mis-conception so to make man curse or talk against God.(Job 1:9,10,11).

God saves the Righteous?
So everyone believes that God only saves the "righteous". In Job 19:25, Job's redeemer was someone that was going to save him because he is "righteous". That's the type of redeemer he believed in according to his mind set at that point.

Elihu rebukes Job
After Job was done talking against God, Then Elihu spoke saying God is not wicked (JOb 34:10-22) and Job spoke without knowledge and wisdom(Job 34:35; 35:16) and added rebellion unto his sin and talked against God(Job34:37). Even Job thinks he is more righteous than God (Job 35:1) and saying there's no benefit of being "good" (Job 35:2).

1st Angel's Message
Then Elihu answer Job and his 3 friends by pointing out God's wonderful work through His creation. Then God answers Job with multiple questions regarding who takes care of all the creation? Like who can number the clouds in wisdom? ... Knowest thou the time when the wild goats bring forth? etc...

God is Love
In doing this, God is showing Job that he cares for all regarless if they are good or bad. Let's take the wild goat for an example. God cared for a simple wild goat, not because it is "good" or because it has "obeyed the law". God gives good things and cares for the goat because He loves that goat, and it pleases Him to do so. Plus he has created that goat to need His constant care, so he can forever have that tender relationship in providing for that goat. That's the true relationship of "righteousness by faith" God has ordained from the foundation of the universe to all his creation. That's what we need to understand.

Job Repents
So Job repented: "Behold I am vile....I will lay my hand upon my hand" (Job 40:4) "I uttered that I understood not....I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes" Job 42:3

GC Emphasis is God's Character
So I agree with Tom in regards of the emphasis of the GC, it is that God's character will be manifested, as Gordon has brought out, His character is Love, and it is He that fulfills His Law in us, by creating us as so. As much as the wild goat needs God's constant providing care; we too, need God's constant provision with His presence in our heart to fulfill all things... including the law.

Thanks for your contributions Elle. I agree with your point here.