This isn't true. Here's what MM said:



This is uniquely MM's wording. I've never seen any one else say this. Certainly Ellen White didn't.

Is God responsible for the entrance of sin into the universe?

Regarding God's wrath being revealed, it has been revealed. Throughout Scripture is has been revealed, and Romans 1 draws specific attention to this, to name just one spot:



Above all, the wrath of God was revealed on the cross.

Regarding God's being called to account, it's certainly true that we have no rights over God, but God is humble, incredibly so (as Jesus' washing His disciples feet demonstrated), and has submitted His case for all to be judged. Every knee will bow, not because God forces them to against their will, but because they will have been convinced that God is righteous, by the judgment.

Tom,

You have not done due diligence. That's not the statement I was referencing, but this one:

And we might perhaps even include this one...though it was not quoted in my earlier post on this as the quote above was.

Those are the quotes which, as Mike has said, are substantiated in the SOP.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Ok, I see what happened. I didn't comment on this statement of MM's, but kland did. You commented on his comment of MM's comment. Regarding nature's not being self-acting, I first brought that quote to MM's attention. Pretty funny.

There's actually two different quotes involved. One speaks of nature's not being self-acting, and that deals with God's maintaining nature. I've pointed out that if God were to be caused to withdraw from His maintaining work, that it was likely that bad things would result. God needs to directly act to have nature act as it does (e.g., keep the earth's orbit in line). So the idea I was sharing was that God directly acts to keep nature in line.

Ok, given that, if God is caused to release His control, and bad things happen, God could be said to be employing the forces of nature for destruction. This would be in harmony with His character, and with how He is presented in Scripture (as doing that which He permits). Similarly, at times it is Satan who is causing the destruction, and God permits that. God is also presented as doing that which He permits Satan to do.

By the way, the early Christians viewed that the destruction that came by way of natural disasters was caused by Satan. That is, this was their world view.

At any rate, the "self-acting" passage in "The Ministry of Healing" say nothing of God's employing nature for destruction, so the concept of "self-acting" she shares was not in that context (i.e., she wasn't arguing, as MM did, that saying that if God did not directly cause natural disasters, that would imply that nature is self-acting).

Thanks for helping me understand that. I guess that is like the, Who killed Saul, question.

I guess the thing I find wrong with the thought that nature somehow acts on its own is the fact that God governs nature.


God is in control, just as much as a man is in control of the computer of his creation. The computer does not act on its own, but does what it was programmed to do. God is behind and supports all the realm of nature by His own power. Computers do not think. They do not choose for themselves. They merely follow, thoughtlessly, the code they have been given. Without electricity, they cannot even do this. Likewise, nature does not think. It has no power of choice. It merely follows the Creator's instructions. Without His power, it would also cease to function.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It was my understanding that Tom was trying to say Ellen White was not arguing that nature is self-acting.

Nature includes beings who have the ability to think and act on their own, so that's quite unike a computer.

Except for the fact that computers are also "teachable" to a degree, by being able to change course dependent upon the data coming in.

As it turns out, we who create computers may not always expect the results we get from them. But God, who created nature, always knows in advance what will happen--including what free moral agents will choose!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Nature is suffering from "the wrath of man".

All the pollution being pumped into the air and water, the chemicals being sprayed on fields, food and everywhere! The engineering of foods and filling them with a whole list of chemicals (just read the labels on some things!)

Geoengineers talk about things like sulfate injections into the air, iron fertilization, cloud seeding, increasing the amount of sulfates in the Earth's atmosphere, artificial ionization of earth’s atmosphere. Then there's genetic manipulation and engineering. Mixing the genes of plants and animals and even humans! And also cutting down the natural air filters of the world (forests)

They are even developing a contraceptive vaccine that aims to control populations of wild animals, such as rabbits and foxes. This is an immuno-contraceptive vaccine which causes an animal's immune system to produce antibodies that act against some essential event or structure in the reproductive process.

Quote:
"Environmental warfare is defined as the intentional modification or manipulation of the natural ecology, such as climate and weather, earth systems such as the ionosphere, magnetosphere, tectonic plate system, and/or the triggering of seismic events (earthquakes) to cause intentional physical, economic, and psycho-social, and physical destruction to an intended target geophysical or population location, as part of strategic or tactical war." (Eco News)



God created a perfect world
but who made it so imperfect?

Who is the "he" in the quote below......and who is doing "his" work?

"he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast." {CH 461.1}



A lot of the troubles in this world are the result of
CAUSE AND EFFECT

Mankind breaks the natural laws of health
Mankind upsets the laws of nature
and of course the moral laws as well --
the result is pretty disastorous.