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Re: The Wrath of God,The Wrath of Satan, the The Wrath of Man [Re: dedication] #120030
10/02/09 01:06 AM
10/02/09 01:06 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
T:Nature includes beings who have the ability to think and act on their own, so that's quite unike a computer.

GC:Except for the fact that computers are also "teachable" to a degree, by being able to change course dependent upon the data coming in.


Clearly you see the difference, since you put "teachable" in quotes.

Quote:
As it turns out, we who create computers may not always expect the results we get from them. But God, who created nature, always knows in advance what will happen--including what free moral agents will choose!


I disagree with this idea. If this were the case, then when God created Lucifer, it was inevitable that sin should occur.

The SOP tells us:

Quote:
Remember that Christ risked all. For our redemption, heaven itself was imperiled. (COL 196)


If what you are suggesting were true, how could heaven have been imperiled?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Wrath of God,The Wrath of Satan, the The Wrath of Man [Re: Tom] #120031
10/02/09 01:09 AM
10/02/09 01:09 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Agreed, dedication.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Wrath of God,The Wrath of Satan, the The Wrath of Man [Re: Tom] #120047
10/03/09 02:38 AM
10/03/09 02:38 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Again, God has employed the forces of nature to cause death and destruction. He has employed water and fire to cause universal and local "annihilation" and "extermination". Note her use of these two words in the following passages:

"And the reason why man was not annihilated was because God so loved him that He made the gift of His dear Son that He should suffer the penalty of his transgression. {FW 21.2}

"The world see the very class whom they have mocked and derided, and desired to exterminate, pass unharmed through pestilence, tempest, and earthquake. He who is to the transgressors of His law a devouring fire, is to His people a safe pavilion. {GC 654.3}

NOTE: In the quote above she equates the "devouring fire" of God with "pestilence, tempest, and earthquake". Indeed, our God is a consuming fire. He employs the forces of nature to punish and destroy sinners.

"But not so when the great controversy shall be ended. Then, the plan of redemption having been completed, the character of God is revealed to all created intelligences. The precepts of His law are seen to be perfect and immutable. Then sin has made manifest its nature, Satan his character. Then the extermination of sin will vindicate God's love and establish His honor before a universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law. {DA 764.3}

"The whole universe will have become witnesses to the nature and results of sin. And its utter extermination, which in the beginning would have brought fear to angels and dishonor to God, will now vindicate His love and establish His honor before the universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law. Never will evil again be manifest. Says the word of God: "Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. The law of God, which Satan has reproached as the yoke of bondage, will be honored as the law of liberty. A tested and proved creation will never again be turned from allegiance to Him whose character has been fully manifested before them as fathomless love and infinite wisdom. {GC 504.1}

"God is slow to anger. He gave the wicked nations a time of probation that they might become acquainted with Him and His character. According to the light given was their condemnation for refusing to receive the light and choosing their own ways rather than God's ways. God gave the reason why He did not at once dispossess the Canaanites. The iniquity of the Amorites was not full. Through their iniquity they were gradually bringing themselves to the point where God's forbearance could no longer be exercised and they would be exterminated. Until the point was reached and their iniquity was full, the vengeance of God would be delayed. All nations had a period of probation. Those who made void God's law would advance from one degree of wickedness to another. Children would inherit the rebellious spirit of their parents and do worse than their fathers before them until God's wrath would fall upon them. The punishment was not less because deferred (MS 58, 1900). {2BC 1005.6}

"The Amorites were inhabitants of Canaan, and the Lord had promised the land of Canaan to the Israelites; but a long interval must pass before His people should possess the land. He stated the reason why this interval must pass. He told them that the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full, and their expulsion and extermination could not be justified until they had filled up the cup of their iniquity. Idolatry and sin marked their course, but the measure of their guilt was not such that they could be devoted to destruction. In His love and pity God would let light shine upon them in more distinct rays; He would give them opportunity to behold the working of His wondrous power, that there might be no excuse for their course of evil. It is thus that God deals with the nations. Through a certain period of probation He exercises long-suffering toward nations, cities, and individuals. But when it is evident that they will not come unto Him that they might have life, judgments are visited upon them. The time came when judgment was inflicted upon the Amorites, and the time will come when all the transgressors of His law will know that God will by no means clear the guilty (Ibid., May 2, 1893). {1BC 1093.5}

"The Hebrews had an opportunity to reflect upon the scene that they had witnessed in the visitation of God's wrath upon the most prominent ones in this great rebellion. The goodness and mercy of God were displayed in not completely exterminating this ungrateful people when His wrath was kindled against the most responsible ones. He gave the congregation who had permitted themselves to be deceived, space for repentance. The fact that the Lord, their invisible Leader, showed so much long-suffering and mercy in this instance is distinctly recorded as evidence of His willingness to forgive the most grievous offenders when they have a sense of their sin and return unto Him with repentance and humiliation. The congregation had been arrested in their presumptuous course by the display of the Lord's vengeance; but they were not convinced that they were great sinners against Him, deserving His wrath for their rebellious course. {3T 355.1}

NOTE: Nowhere in the passages above does Ellen White "dare to attribute" the judgments of God to Satan or other agencies. She fully acknowledges the wrath of God as the wrath of God.

"Notwithstanding they had had the most convincing evidence of God's displeasure at their course, in the destruction of the men who had deceived them, they dared to attribute His judgments to Satan, declaring that through the power of the evil one, Moses and Aaron had caused the death of good and holy men. It was this act that sealed their doom. {PP 404.4}

Re: The Wrath of God,The Wrath of Satan, the The Wrath of Man [Re: Mountain Man] #120218
10/07/09 03:06 PM
10/07/09 03:06 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,494
Midland
Quote:
She fully acknowledges the wrath of God as the wrath of God.

And what would be the wrath of God?

Re: The Wrath of God,The Wrath of Satan, the The Wrath of Man [Re: kland] #120249
10/08/09 03:19 AM
10/08/09 03:19 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: kland
M: Nowhere in the passages above does Ellen White "dare to attribute" the judgments of God to Satan or other agencies. She fully acknowledges the wrath of God as the wrath of God.

K: And what would be the wrath of God?

The various ways God expressed His wrath are clearly described in the books and passages posted above.

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