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Re: the great controversy [Re: Rosangela] #120064
10/03/09 07:33 PM
10/03/09 07:33 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
Originally Posted By: Rosangela

Besides, from the beginning his attacks were directed to God as a Ruler, not as a Father. Is there a better way of undermining God's government than by undermining the legitimacy/integrity/authority of His law?


Rosangela, not so. From the beginning God's Fatherly love was questioned.

God's immeasurable love is the pivot of the controversy.

For this, only His Very Best Offering could furnish irrefutable proof.

For God so Loved the World... John 3:16

_______

Re: the great controversy [Re: Elle] #120065
10/03/09 09:30 PM
10/03/09 09:30 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
There's "good" rulers and "bad" rulers. Satan was saying God was a "bad" ruler, so therefore wasn't the issue really about God's character? Doesn't Laws depends on how the ruler(or individual who read them) interpret them and applies them?

Elle,

What is the easiest way to prove that the ruler is bad? By demonstrating that the rules he makes and uses in/for his government are bad. It's not just a question of interpreting and applying laws but, in this case, of making them. If you make bad laws, you are a bad ruler. There was no other evidence of God's "bad" government for Satan to point to except His law.

Re: the great controversy [Re: gordonb1] #120066
10/03/09 09:41 PM
10/03/09 09:41 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Mike, the center of the issue is Love, the fulfilling of the Law. (Romans 13:10)

The law is only a letter, a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. (Galations 3:24)

The law is dry like the hills of Gilboa if not fulfilled. Dry, Dry, Dried bones.

If we have only the law and not Christ, we will be lost.

God's Love is being challenged by Satan. This love is in Christ.

Is the law a law of love? This is the central question of the great controversy.
Satan leads men to divorce the law from love, so that they either think that what is necessary is the law (without love), or that what is necessary is love (without the law). Either way he achieves his objective.


Re: the great controversy [Re: gordonb1] #120067
10/03/09 10:03 PM
10/03/09 10:03 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, from the beginning his attacks were directed to God as a Ruler, not as a Father. Is there a better way of undermining God's government than by undermining the legitimacy/integrity/authority of His law?

Rosangela, not so. From the beginning God's Fatherly love was questioned.

God's immeasurable love is the pivot of the controversy.

For this, only His Very Best Offering could furnish irrefutable proof.

For God so Loved the World... John 3:16

Gordon,

The whole point is, Why was the Offering given? Just to show God's love?

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13).

If Christ had to die in order to redeem us from the curse of the law, don't you think the law had something to do with His death?

Re: the great controversy [Re: Rosangela] #120069
10/04/09 02:16 AM
10/04/09 02:16 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Is the law a law of love? This is the central question of the great controversy.


Is God a God of love. That is the central question of the Great Controversy.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: the great controversy [Re: Tom] #120070
10/04/09 02:20 AM
10/04/09 02:20 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
The whole point is, Why was the Offering given? Just to show God's love?

"Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13).

If Christ had to die in order to redeem us from the curse of the law, don't you think the law had something to do with His death?


The following are some thoughts by E. J. Waggoner on Gal. 3:22:

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law." Let us stop right here and contemplate this fact, leaving the way of redemption for later consideration. We need to consider the statement very carefully, for some who read it straightway rush off frantically exclaiming, "We don't need to keep the law, because Christ has redeemed us from the curse of it," as though the text said that Christ redeemed us from the curse of obedience. Such read the Scriptures to no profit. The curse, as we have seen it, is disobedience. "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Therefore, Christ has redeemed us from disobedience to the law. God sent forth His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, "that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Rom.8:4.

Some one may lightly say, "Then we are all right; whatever we do is right so far as the law is concerned, since we are redeemed." It is true that all are redeemed, but not all have accepted redemption. Many say of Christ, "We will not have this Man to reign over us," and thrust the blessing of God from them. But redemption is for all; all have been purchased with the precious blood--the life--of Christ, and all may be, if they will, free from sin and death. By that blood we are redeemed from our "vain manner of life." 1Pet.1:18, R.V.

Stop and think what this means; let the full force of the announcement impress itself upon your consciousness. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,"--from not continuing in all its righteous requirements. We need not sin any more. He has snapped asunder the cords of sin that bound us, so that we have but to accept His salvation in order to be free from every besetting sin. It is not necessary for us any longer to spend our lives in earnest longings for a better life, and in vain regrets for desires unrealized. Christ raises no false hopes, but He comes to the captives of sin, and cries to them, "Liberty! Your prison doors are open. Go forth." What more can be said? Christ has gained the complete victory over "this present evil world," over "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life," and our faith in Him makes His victory ours. We have but to accept it. (The Glad Tidings)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: the great controversy [Re: Tom] #120071
10/04/09 02:22 AM
10/04/09 02:22 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Some more:

That "Christ died for the ungodly" is evident to all who read the Bible. He "was delivered for our offenses." Rom.4:25. The Innocent suffered for the guilty; the Just for the unjust. "He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Is.53:5,6. But death came by sin. Death is the curse that has passed upon all men, simply because "all have sinned." So, as Christ was "made a curse for us," it follows that Christ was "made to be sin on our behalf." 2Cor.5:21, R.V. He bore "our sins in His own body" up to the tree. 1Pet.2:24, margin. Note that our sins were "in His body." It was no superficial work that He undertook. The sins were not merely figuratively laid on Him, but they were actually in Him. He was made a curse for us, made to be sin for us, and consequently suffered death for us.

To some this truth seems repugnant; to the Greeks it is foolishness, and to the Jews a stumbling-block, but "to us who are saved, it is the power of God." For bear in mind that it was our sins that He bore in His own body--not His own sins. The same scripture that tells us that He was made to be sin for us, assures us that He "knew no sin." The same text that tells us that He carried our sins "in His own body," is careful to let us know that He "did no sin." The fact that He could carry our sin about with Him, and in Him, being actually made to be sin for us, and yet not do any sin, is to His everlasting glory and our eternal salvation from sin. All the sins of all men were on Him, yet no person ever discovered the trace of sin upon Him. No sin was ever manifested in His life, although He took all sin upon Himself. He received it and swallowed it up by the power of the endless life in which He swallows up death. He can bear sin, and yet be untainted by it. It is by this marvelous life that He redeems us. He gives us His life, so that we may be freed from every taint of the sin that is in our flesh.

Christ, "in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save Him from death," "was heard in that He feared." Heb.5:7. But He died! Yes; but no one took His life from Him; He laid it down, that He might take it again. John 10:17,18. The pangs of death were loosed, "because it was not possible that He should be holden of it." Acts 2:24. Why was it not possible for death to hold Him, even though He voluntarily put Himself in its power?--Because He "knew no sin;" He took sin upon Himself, but was saved from its power. He was "in all things" "made like unto His brethren," "in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb.2:17; 4:15), and since He could of Himself do nothing (John 5:30), He prayed to the Father to keep Him from being overcome and thereby falling under the power of death. And He was heard. In His case these words were fulfilled: "The Lord God will help Me; therefore shall I not be confounded; therefore have I set My face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. He is near that justifieth Me; who will contend with Me?" Is.50:7,8.

Whose sin was it that thus oppressed Him, and from which He was delivered?--Not His own, for He had none. It was your sin and mine. Our sins have already been overcome--vanquished. We have to fight only with an already defeated foe. When you come to God "in the name of Jesus," having surrendered yourself to His death and life, so that you do not bear His name in vain, because Christ liveth in you, you have only to remember that every sin was on Him, and is still on Him, and that He is the conqueror, and straightway you will say, "Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savor of His knowledge by us in every place." 2Cor.2:14. (The Glad Tidings)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: the great controversy [Re: Tom] #120072
10/04/09 02:23 AM
10/04/09 02:23 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
There's more here: http://www.crcbermuda.com/bible/righteou...sing-of-abraham, if anyone's interested (hope so!)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: the great controversy [Re: Tom] #120080
10/04/09 11:39 AM
10/04/09 11:39 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Quote:
Is the law a law of love? This is the central question of the great controversy.

Is God a God of love. That is the central question of the Great Controversy.

Is the law is a law of love? If so, then it's proven that God is a God of love. This is the central question of the Great Controversy.

Re: the great controversy [Re: Tom] #120081
10/04/09 11:48 AM
10/04/09 11:48 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The curse, as we have seen it, is disobedience. "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Therefore, Christ has redeemed us from disobedience to the law.

Tsk, tsk...
"'Disobedient' is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"?

Or

"'Subject to the penalty of the law' is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"?

It's obvious that Paul does not refer to disobedience, but to the penalty of disobedience. The first option does not even make sense. Therefore, Christ has redeemed us from the penalty of the law.

"Jesus gave his life to save lost man from the curse or penalty he merited by transgression." {2SG 274.2}

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