God does not destroy the wicked by an arbitrary (i.e. "depending on individual discretion (as of a judge)") act of power. Rather, they die as a result of the choices they have made. Had God "left" Satan to reap the full results of his sin, he would have perished, but it would not have been apparently that his death was the inevitable result of sin.



I'll see if I can quote from Ty's book. Perhaps that will make sense to you.



DA 764 addresses this:



Also DA 108 and GC 541-543. In DA 108, it points out that the same thing that gives life to the righteous is what slays the wicked, so this can't be literal fire.

At any rate, to answer your question, God is the consuming fire.

Isaiah 33 is another passage which discusses this.



Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago, for comparison of my recent statements (in regards to your comment regarding most recent statements). I'll let you judge for yourself how what I'm saying now compares with this.


The Destruction of the Glory of God

"The judgment scene will take place in the presence of all the worlds; for in this judgment the government of God will be vindicated, and His law will stand forth as 'holy, and just, and good.' Then every case will be decided, and sentence will be passed upon all. Sin will not then appear attractive, but will be seen in all its hideous magnitude. (SD 361)

I would like to comment on the part which I put in bold. This is a very important principle.

God has told us that sin will result in death. Sin is lethal. The cross of Christ shows this to be the case. And also the death of the wicked, which this quote points out. When we underestimate the hideousness of sin, we are led in overstating God's role in the destruction of the wicked.

When we see sin as a weak thing, then God must do the destruction, because sin is weak and can't do it by itself. But sin is not weak! The destruction of the wicked will show this to be the case.

Note the following:



This also shows the lethality of sin.



Shows the same thing. God is not to be looked at as an executioner. The wicked reap that which they have sown.



Same idea. It is the glory of God which destroys sin. Note continuing down on the same quote that the same thing that destroys the wicked gives life to the righteous!



This is reminiscent of Isa 33:14, 15



Again this principle is explained in DA 764



Here is what we have seen:
1) God destroys no one.
2) The wicked destroy themselves.
3) Unbelief sows a sure harvest.
4) God is not to be looked upon as an executioner.
5) The same glory of God which gives life to the rightoues destroys the wicked.
6) God is a consuming fire to sin, so those who place themselves out of harmony with God, who insist on clinging to it, will be destroyed by God's glory.

Sin results in death. That is exactly what will happen to the wicked. Although God does not stand before the wicked as an executioner, the wicked will have destroyed themselves by placing themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence to them is a consuming fire, and they are destroyed.

In fact, it is in mercy that God allows the wicked to be destroyed, as they have no desire to live with God:



Here's one more quote that explains the principle that it is the glory of God which destroys:



If God's glory had not been shrouded, it would have destroyed us. At the judgment of the wicked, it is not shrouded, and it will destroy.

GC, how specifically do you believe the wicked are set on fire?

1.God's character causes spontaneous combustion, and ignites them.
2.God sends fire from heaven upon them, like a lightning bolt, and that sets them on fire, to burn like a torch.
3.The wicked are in a soup of molten lava, a sea of glass, and this causes them to be set on fire.

Or perhaps a combination of the above? Or none of the above? (something else (?))

Tom, do you think Ty's books teach the inevitable result of sin during judgment, as each sin is revisited, involves comprehending the contrast between their character and God's causing compounding mental and physical suffering eventually ending in death?

If so, do you think the physical presence of God is necessary for it to play out this way? Also, do you think literal fire will be present at the time? If so, what effect will it have on the wicked before they die?

PS - Please elaborate when you answer these questions. If they miss the mark, please take it upon yourself to clearly state your position. Don't wait until I'm clever enough to ask the right questions. Thank you.

Ellen White said the angels were fully aware of what God would do if they dared to persist in a course of rebellion. She wrote:

"Still the loyal angels urged him and his sympathizers to submit to God; and they set before them the inevitable result should they refuse: He who had created them could overthrow their power and signally punish their rebellious daring. No angel could successfully oppose the law of God, which was as sacred as Himself. They warned all to close their ears against Lucifer's deceptive reasoning, and urged him and his followers to seek the presence of God without delay and confess the error of questioning His wisdom and authority. {PP 40.2}


She says it is the "light of His glory" that will slay the wicked. Light, not character, will slay the wicked. This "light" is literal light. Light can be "veiled", but not so character. The effect of this literal light on sinners is painful and deadly; whereas, it is life and healing to the risen saints. Of this light, Ellen wrote:

But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked. {DA 107.4}

When the divine Presence was manifested upon Sinai, the glory of the Lord was like devouring fire in the sight of all Israel. But when Christ shall come in glory with His holy angels the whole earth shall be ablaze with the terrible light of His presence. "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people." Psalm 50:3, 4. A fiery stream shall issue and come forth from before Him, which shall cause the elements to melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel." 2 Thessalonians 1:7, 8. {PP 339.2}

Moses "was permitted to see the bright light and excellent glory that enshrouded the Father." {EW 162.3}

The glory of the Eternal Father is enshrouding His Son. The brightness of His presence fills the City of God, and flows out beyond the gates, flooding the whole earth with its radiance. {GC 665.1}

So great was the divine glory revealed to Daniel that he could not endure the sight. Then the messenger of heaven veiled the brightness of his presence and appeared to the prophet as "one like the similitude of the sons of men" (verse 16). {RC 90.5}

Christ came to reveal to a fallen race the love of God. He, the Light of the world, veiled the dazzling splendor of the brightness of His divinity, and came to live on this earth as a man among men, that they might, without being consumed, become acquainted with their Creator. {UL 334.5}

They tell [Moses] that they cannot look into his face, for the radiant light in his countenance is exceedingly painful to them. His face is like the sun; they cannot look upon it. When Moses finds out the difficulty, he covers his face with a veil. He does not plead that the light and glory upon his face is the reflection of God's glory that He placed upon him, and that the people must bear it; but he covers his glory. The sinfulness of the people make it painful to behold his glorified face. So will it be when the saints of God are glorified just previous to the second appearing of our Lord. The wicked will retire and shrink away from the sight, for the glory in the countenances of the saints will pain them. {3T 354.3}

And by the same logic, it would be equally true that all that man can know about God was revealed in the OT. Do you agree with that also?

In short, you believe that Satan, today, does not know that he is wrong. Correct?

None of the above options you have presented are without error, therefore "none of the above."

I see, however, that you have been shifting toward the view I have held all along, and is much the same as Mike has also presented--that is, that God's glory is a consuming fire, and it is a revelation of the same which consumes the wicked.

Going back to the alcohol I mentioned a few posts back as an illustration of sin...

Water does not burn.
Alcohol burns.
Water and alcohol can mix.
A combination of water and alcohol, because of the alcohol, burns.

In Revelation we are told "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Revelation 3:18-21, KJV)

Gold which has already been purified in the fire contains no more dross to burn. It can withstand the furnace. If it contains impurities, however, they will burn.

God's glory will burn everyone, righteous included. The difference is that righteous will be able to stand, whereas the wicked cannot. Psalm 1, Isaiah 33, Psalm 15, Isaiah 43 and other passages all speak to this issue.

Furthermore, God's glory will always burn--forever. The righteous will be able to stand in His presence. He is to be the light of the world, such that we no longer need the light of the sun.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

We know that God's glory will slay and destroy the wicked. But I'm challenging your contention that everything we know about God was revealed during Christ's 33 years, since never in that time did He slay or destroy the wicked. This one fact - the God will destroy the wicked, but Jesus didn't do it while incarnate - disproves your interpretation.

You are destroying a straw man. Read my argument again. I emphasized the part you missed in your rebuttal.

You believe that everything Jesus has ever revealed about God that we can know is contained in His 33-year history in Judea. Right?

Ok, I've confirmed my impression that his focus is only the earth, and that he says nothing about the conflict having begun in heaven.