Ellen yes, I guess those references are one way of closing the door on any further study.. Thats what the quote is there for, isnt it?

As I said before, for all of us who think sin is the problem rather than the fact that we are humans, may Calvin be right that God ordains the elect to have the desires they need to be happy in the coming kingdom.

Except of course that the issue word here is neither death nor sleap, but "living". "He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Since my case here is that Jesus words on marriage are as metaphorical as His words about the patriarchs are. Further that since the literal reading of Jesus words regarding the patriarchs appears to be unacceptable and that His words on marriage should be treated by the same method as His words on the patriarchs are treated. Therefore it seems to me that you are asking me to explain to you why you are right, while I am still questioning whether you are right.

Either Jesus words on marriage and His words on the patriarchs both describe the world in a photographic way, no one is married in heaven and the patriarchs are living since God is their God.
Or Jesus words on marriage and His words on the patriarchs both describe the world like a map or a medieval painting, the patriarchs are dead but "have their names in the book of life" and people are still, (I dont know, its not like there is an established theology to back this up like there is one for the "living patriarchs"),,, what about cohabiting? :P

Rosangela,

I partly agree with you here, and partly disagree. Sleep is a metaphor for death, true enough. However, it is not applicable to every death. There are some deaths which would not be a "sleep."

As this topic deviates from the OP question, I have started a separate thread to explore this further. Jesus used the opportunity, while on the topic of the afterlife, to bring these concepts in. However, they are not directly related to the issue of marriage.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It's "living" because the dead will wake up from their sleep. The metaphor is still death/sleep.


Thomas, a metaphor must have a meaning. The meaning in the first case is that the patriarchs are alive because they are just sleeping and will wake up from their sleep. Contrarily to what the sadducees taught, there will be a resurrection. But the metaphor in the latter case is what? Will people in the resurrection "cohabit" like the angels?

Truth is Truth even when we do not understand it...

I don't see the position you are presenting as being backed up by the Word of God. So how can I consider it "truth"?

Thomas, is it possible to read both parts literally? I'm just thinking out loud, but it seems to me the patriarchs are literally alive and the people in heaven literally do not get married. Jesus addresses both forms of marriage - consensual and contractual. Neither will happen after the resurrection. Also, the way Luke recorded it is helpful.

Luke
20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Mike, I stated your option as one of our choices. But how can you take it without giving up or do major damage to one of the adventist uniques which you stated elsewhere are the golden ticket to paradise for the last generation?

Rosangela, The problem would of course be that there are not that many places to look for support on either side for the marriage question while sticking to Scripture. Is the topic even raised anywhere else in the scriptures?

Lukes telling of the story seem a close couple to how Paul reflects over marriage here:

25Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
29But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
30And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.
36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.
39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
40But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

So is the issue marriage in heaven or marriage at all?

V: Mike, I stated your option as one of our choices. But how can you take it without giving up or do major damage to one of the adventist uniques which you stated elsewhere are the golden ticket to paradise for the last generation?

M: I don't see a conflict with what I suggested above and SDA beliefs. What are you referring to?