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Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Rosangela] #120584
10/16/09 02:25 PM
10/16/09 02:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
No, we can't speculate, especially on animals resurrected, for there is no support for this in inspiration.

Where do the animals on the New Earth come from if God does not resurrect them? Does He create them? If so, please provide a quote that says so. Rom 8: 19-23 implies animals will be resurrected.

Quote:
R: Ellen White says God planned to repopulate heaven with human beings.

The plan to create humans existed before Lucifer rebelled.

Quote:
R: Whether Thomas accepts this or not, the fact is that God is a God of order and He Himself chose the planet man would inhabit. The size of this planet indicates that God designed a given number of human beings to exist in His universe. The same is true for other beings in their respective planets.

You might be right. But the evidence could be interpreted to agree with what I wrote. We probably won't know for sure until we are in Heaven and ask Jesus.

Quote:
R: Well, God Himself will inhabit here in this planet with His redeemed creatures. This is His promise to us. Would you like to live in another planet?

I suspect I would be just as comfortable on a different planet as other beings are now. I doubt space and time will limit the presence of God to the New Earth.

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Mountain Man] #120588
10/16/09 02:55 PM
10/16/09 02:55 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
No, we can't speculate, especially on animals resurrected, for there is no support for this in inspiration.

Where do the animals on the New Earth come from if God does not resurrect them? Does He create them? If so, please provide a quote that says so. Rom 8: 19-23 implies animals will be resurrected.


Originally Posted By: Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.
2937. Ktísis; a founding, that is, of a city, colonization of a habitable place. Creation in a pass. sense, what is created, the sum total of what is created (Mark 10:6; 13:19; 1 Pet. 2:13). Denotes particularly the individual creature or what is created (Rom. 1:25; 9:39; Col. 1:15; Heb. 4:13). The sum total of what God has created, the creation (Mark 10:6; 13:19; Rom. 1:20; Heb. 9:11; 2 Pet. 3:4; Rev. 3:14). Refers specifically to mankind as God's creation (Mark 16:15; Col. 1:23). See also....


That makes it appear to me that it is referring to mankind by the use of the term creature/creation. Both of these translations in those verses come from the same Greek word which is defined in the quote above.

I might also note that Peter mentions but eight souls being saved on the ark. Jesus did not come to die for animals, but for man.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Green Cochoa] #120610
10/17/09 01:23 AM
10/17/09 01:23 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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GC, I can post links to several scholarly cites that say animals will be resurrected. But this is getting off topic.

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Mountain Man] #120613
10/17/09 03:37 AM
10/17/09 03:37 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
GC, I can post links to several scholarly cites that say animals will be resurrected. But this is getting off topic.
Yes, and I'm sure both of us could post links to scholars claiming there will be marriage in heaven. smile

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Green Cochoa] #120616
10/17/09 07:30 AM
10/17/09 07:30 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
The great military commander conquers nations, and shakes the armies of half the world; but he dies of disappointment, and in exile. The philosopher who ranges through the universe, everywhere tracing the manifestations of God's power, and delighting in their harmony, often fails to behold in these marvelous wonders the hand that formed them all. “Man that is in honor, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.” [Psalm 49:20.] No hope of glorious immortality lights up the future of the enemies of God. But those heroes of faith have the promise of an inheritance of greater value than any earthly riches,— an inheritance that will satisfy the longings of the soul. They may be unknown and unacknowledged by the world, but they are enrolled as citizens in the record books of heaven. An exalted greatness, an enduring, eternal weight of glory, will be the final reward of those whom God has made heirs of all things. {GW92 26.2}

This man's aims were no higher than those of the beasts that perish. He lived as if there were no God, no heaven, no future life; as if everything he possessed were his own, and he owed nothing to God or man. The psalmist described this rich man when he wrote, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." Psalm 14:1. {COL 257.1}

In too many households, prayer is neglected. Parents feel they have no time for morning and evening worship. They cannot spare a few moments in which to give thanks to God for his abundant mercies,--for the blessed sunshine and the showers of rain, which cause vegetation to flourish, and for the guardianship of holy angels. They have no time to offer prayer for divine help and guidance, and for the abiding presence of Jesus in the household. They go forth to labor as the ox or the horse goes, without one thought of God or heaven. They have souls so precious that rather than permit them to be hopelessly lost, the Son of God gave his life to ransom them; but they have little more appreciation of his great goodness than have the beasts that perish. {CE 221.1}

It is our wisdom to fear God and to love him with all the heart. He is to be first and last and best in everything. We are not to be like the beasts of the field, who eat and drink, with no thought of God, no idea of gratitude to their Creator for his daily benefits. All of us, as beings blessed of God with reasoning powers, with intellect and judgment, should acknowledge our accountability to God. The life he has given us is a sacred responsibility, and no moment of it is to be trifled with; for we shall have to meet it again in the record of the Judgment. In the books of heaven our lives are as accurately traced as in the picture on the plate of the photographer. Not only are we held accountable for what we have done, but for what we have left undone. We are held to account for our undeveloped characters, our unimproved opportunities. {RH, September 22, 1891 par. 1}

With his own life Christ has bought man, and given him a probation in which to work out his own salvation. God asks his children to live a pure, holy life. He has given his Son that we may reach this standard. He has made every provision necessary to enable man to live, not for animal satisfaction, like the beasts that perish, but for God and heaven. God is not satisfied when human beings live merely a selfish life. Christ died that the moral image of God might be restored in humanity, that men and women might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. We are to use no power of our being for selfish gratification; for all our powers belong to him, and are to be used to his glory. He who does nothing to glorify God might better never have been born. Those who live merely an animal life are by precept and example teaching others to leave eternity out of their reckoning. {RH, November 6, 1900 par. 8}

Originally Posted By: The Bible
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:20)


Since it appears pretty solid to me that the Bible and Mrs. White both concur regarding the animals/beasts of the earth not having souls to save, perhaps we can lay this one to rest and continue on the marriage concept. smile

I believe animals were created as a witness to us of God's love, but have no more need of "being saved" and taken to heaven than have the trees or flowers which we see around us. Heaven will have trees, flowers, animals, and most certainly even creatures we have never known. But these things will not have needed to be brought from sinful earth. God can create them better and more beautiful than we have ever known.

I believe the same is true of marriage. Both the Bible and Mrs. White inform us that marriage as we know it will not exist in Heaven. I do not for one moment believe that anyone of us will miss it. Heaven will have so many joys of a superior form that we will not miss the humble pleasures granted us now.

As with animals, which we will have in Heaven, though not brought from earth, families (or at least "family") will exist in Heaven, but not of the same form as on earth. Not via marriage. Our homes here are but a sample of the family in Heaven:
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Bear in mind that your children belong to God, and are to become His sons and daughters. He designs that the families on earth shall be samples of the family in heaven. {AUCR, September 6, 1909 par. 6}


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Green Cochoa] #120618
10/17/09 02:31 PM
10/17/09 02:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
M: GC, I can post links to several scholarly cites that say animals will be resurrected. But this is getting off topic.

GC: Yes, and I'm sure both of us could post links to scholars claiming there will be marriage in heaven. smile

I guess we need to rely on the inspired sources! Have you found a quote in the Bible or the SOP that says animals, especially pets, will not be resurrected?

Re: Two Institutions of Creation - The Sabbath and Marriage [Re: Mountain Man] #120619
10/17/09 02:58 PM
10/17/09 02:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
PS - Oops! I just read your next post. Must one sin in order to be resurrected? I have never seen my dog sin. She is perfect. Does that disqualify her? Must one have a "soul" to be resurrected? What does "have" a soul mean? Body + breath = soul. Animals are also made of body and breath. The difference between men and animals is conscience. Animals act on instinct and intelligence but do not understand the moral difference between right and wrong. But is having a conscience required to be resurrected?

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