Yes, things in Eden were favourable for living a sinless life. Not neutral. The law was, and still is, the thing that determines sin and sinlessness both in God's mind and man's mind, and in reality.

God knows what sin is and, in theory, He can sin, but in reality He will never sin. He is not a free moral agent in the same sense we are. There is no comparison.

What do you think?

A passing question, when we say that the fallen angels no longer have access to heaven (since the cross), does that mean that God does not all them to go there, or is there more to it than that?

Hi Mike, so far so good, but now we come to some hitch points of definition.

Mike: The law was, and still is, the thing that determines sin and sinlessness both in God's mind and man's mind, and in reality.

John: We need a definition of "Law" that stands before creation of any FMA in heaven or earth, and is governing in God's own mind.

Mike: God knows what sin is and, in theory, He can sin, but in reality He will never sin

John: Agreed. Why will he never sin? (This is not a light minded question, but very pertinent to us)

Mike: He is not a free moral agent in the same sense we are. There is no comparison.

John: What is he?
Does God have a will? Is it free (sovereign)?
What is the definition of "FMA"?
What is the contrast?

As I see it, the definition of the law of God is the same through all eternity. “All unrighteousness is sin.” 1 John 5:17. All unrighteous thoughts, words, or deeds are sin. Yes, God is the standard of righteousness, but this does not preclude Him from abiding by it. He will not do anything against righteousness. Not because He cannot, but because He will not. Why not? Because God will never choose to sin. How do we know? Because He said so.

“Does God have a will? Is it free (sovereign)?” Yes, of course. But He is not FMA in the same sense we are. “What is the definition of FMA?” A created being endowed with the ability to love or hate God, to sin or not sin, to be righteous or unrighteous. “What is the contrast?” God is divine and FMA are not. Personally, I do not believe we can grasp God by comparing Him to FMA. There is just no comparison. The difference between brute beasts and FMA is the best we can do to understand free moral agency.

Tom, yes, all evil angels are confined to this planet. They cannot travel throughout God's far flung universe. They do not have the golden card. They were banished from heaven long ago and have never entered since then.

EW 39
There is perfect order and harmony in the Holy City. All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. {EW 39.2}

DA 761
Because he, after his rebellion, had been banished from heaven, Satan claimed that the human race must be forever shut out from God's favor. {DA 761.4}

GC 500
Thus stubborn and defiant in their disloyalty, seeking vainly to overthrow the government of God, yet blasphemously claiming to be themselves the innocent victims of oppressive power, the archrebel and all his sympathizers were at last banished from heaven. {GC 499.3}

DA 490
Like the apostles, the seventy had received supernatural endowments as a seal of their mission. When their work was completed, they returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name." Jesus answered, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." {DA 490.1}

The scenes of the past and the future were presented to the mind of Jesus. He beheld Lucifer as he was first cast out from the heavenly places. He looked forward to the scenes of His own agony, when before all the worlds the character of the deceiver should be unveiled. He heard the cry, "It is finished" (John 19:30), announcing that the redemption of the lost race was forever made certain, that heaven was made eternally secure against the accusations, the deceptions, the pretensions, that Satan would instigate. {DA 490.2}

Beyond the cross of Calvary, with its agony and shame, Jesus looked forward to the great final day, when the prince of the power of the air will meet his destruction in the earth so long marred by his rebellion. Jesus beheld the work of evil forever ended, and the peace of God filling heaven and earth. {DA 490.3}

(to Mike)

My question was, and is, if the evil's angels being banished from heaven means only that they do not have physical access to it.

Regarding God not being a free moral agaent, I don't understand your thinking.

1) God is free.
2) God is moral.
3) God is a being (or agent).

Therefore God is a free moral agent. Perhaps it's the word "agent" you find offensive. Would "free moral being" be better?

Tom, at first I assumed evil angels were allowed in and out of heaven until the cross, but after rereading the SOP quotes posted above it seems clear that they haven’t had physical access since they were initially banished.

Regarding God and FMAs, I think it is dangerous to build a belief concerning whether or not sin was possible before God created FMAs by comparing God to FMAs. God is divine and FMAs are not. Yes, we were originally created in His image and likeness, but things have changed radically since then. It is difficult to compare ourselves to Adam and Eve before they fell, how much more so to God? "God is a Spirit."

Not even Jesus, while here on earth, compared Himself to God. Yes, in some ways He did, but in other ways He did not. But Jesus was both divine and human, therefore, we cannot even compare ourselves to Him. Yes, in some ways we can, but in other ways we cannot. That’s why it isn’t easy to simply say – God is a FMA. Born again believers (more so than unconverted people), who are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, who are partaking of the divine nature, are in many ways like God, but there are far more ways they are unlike Him.

John
4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Somehow these insights and thoughts are tending toward answering the question - Was sin possible before God created FMAs? The answer to this question should help us answer the title of this thread - Was it God's intention that sin exist?

I don't know what John B. is wanting to get at. I hope he is back soon to continue his thought. However, he asked a very simple question, which is if God is a free moral agent. The answer to this question can only be yes. This has nothing to do with comparing ourselves to Him. It would be just like asking if God is just. The answer is yes. The fact that we are (perhaps) also just does not mean we cannot say God is just because that would be comparing ourselves to him. Your logic just doesn't follow. Your scratching where it doesn't itch.

God is a free moral agent. He can do whatever He wants or chooses to do.

Regarding the angels being banished from heaven, the Spirit of Prophesy applies, I think it's Rev. 12:10, now is the accuser of our brethren cast down, to the cross of Christ. How do you understand this?

Tom, yes, God is free and God is moral. But not in the same sense as created beings. Why? Because God was never a slave or immoral. Before God created FMAs, freedom and morality, sin and righteousness, were non-issues. Why? Because sin, slavery and immorality were not possible before God created FMAs. It had nothing to do with God's freedom or morality.

Regarding Christ, the cross and the casting down of Satan, Sister White wrote this:

DA 761
Could one sin have been found in Christ, had He in one particular yielded to Satan to escape the terrible torture, the enemy of God and man would have triumphed. Christ bowed His head and died, but He held fast His faith and His submission to God. "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." Rev. 12:10. {DA 761.1}

Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. Henceforth his work was restricted. Whatever attitude he might assume, he could no longer await the angels as they came from the heavenly courts, and before them accuse Christ's brethren of being clothed with the garments of blackness and the defilement of sin. The last link of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world was broken. {DA 761.2}

The sentence, "he could no longer await the angels as they came from the heavenly courts", makes it clear Satan wasn't inside heaven, but rather he was outside, beyond the gates where the golden card was necessary to pass in and out of heaven. When the evil angels were cast out of heaven, banished to earth, they were never allowed in heaven again. When Jesus died on the cross, Satan was cast down in the sense that all sympathy was severed in heaven. He was exposed, never more to hope for heaven.

EW 39
All the angels that are commissioned to visit the earth hold a golden card, which they present to the angels at the gates of the city as they pass in and out. Heaven is a good place. {EW 39.2}

So, was it God's intention that sin exist? The most obvious answer to this ill-worded question is, NO! But to assume He did not foresee its existence is to assume God does not know the future choices of FMAs. But Sister White plainly wrote, "God did not ordain that sin should exist, but He foresaw its existence, and made provision to meet the terrible emergency." AG 23. Not that it might happen, or that is was possible. No. Her statement is too plain to be misconstrued. God knew Satan and Adam would sin, and He made provision for it in advance. Thank you Jesus.

Thus, sin was inevitable. Not necessary, just inevitable. Why? We cannot adequately answer this answer. That's just the way it is. But in Christ we are dead to sin and awake to righteousness. We are once again truly free moral agents, free to serve Christ and Him crucified.

Sorry for the time lapse, but thank you for working over some of the points. To deal with the question of this topic we must keep in mind the state before sin. The way God created and what he intended.

Okay, the determining factor in sinlessness or sin is "righteousness".

Let us hold that thought. It is good. But it only expresses itself in interpersonal relations. "Righteousness" stands for "fairness" and that has to do with others. But there is something higher governing the issue of whether one will be righteous, and Mike, you alluded to it by saying "because God said so". (Why doesn't everyone just 'say so', and no more sin)

It is "Faithfulness"; which is the 'personal' governing factor; how one governs himself within himself his (feelings/desires/ambitions/thoughts/etc). In other words, where righteousness meets with personal interests.

So the next question then: Did God purpose that the FMB should govern themselves "faithfully"? I like FMB (free moral being) better than FMA:)