I did. You didn't write "symbols," but "mere symbols." That is, you wrote "if not symbols, what are they?" but above you referred to "mere symbols," not "symbols."

You don't understand the difference here?



Do you mean God the Father? Or Jesus Christ?



You didn't answer mine. I suppose you might say, "But I asked you first," but you ask 20 or more times as many questions as I do, so I think it's reasonable for me to at times ask you to answer clarifying questions first.



Yes.



Why do you think I think this?



This has been answered several times. I've also quoted Ty Gibson to address this.



I don't understand why you're asking this question. Please make some point, and I'll respond to your point.

I answered this.



I don't think this is the right way of looking at this. I addressed this in detail.



God never does this. He doesn't "cause us to comprehend His character."



I don't know what you're referring to here.



You wrote a summary of my view. I responded by explaining how I would summarize it.

Do you wish to withdraw your observations above? Or, do you still think they are valid? Also, what do you think destroys the wicked? Do you agree with the point Rosangela agrees with?


At what point in the GC account do you think she doubles back (referring specifically to the 7 point chronology above). Do you think they will be burned alive for a few seconds? And, why do you think sin-hardened men and angels are capable of the emotional agony you described above? Nowhere in the 7 point chronology is such an experience described. Satan goes down kicking not crying.

If you wish to discuss the final demise of evil angels separately, then it would make more sense if you didn’t cite passages which describe the final demise of both men and angels. I’m referring specifically to DA 764: “By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1} Why should we discuss them separately if Ellen didn’t?


So, is your answer to the question, No?


I’m bringing it up for discussion. Do you not have an opinion or observation?

She makes all three comments in the same paragraph. The question is – How can they be true at the same time? How can they be separated from God, cut off from the source of life, and have existence all at the same time?


Do you disagree with the question? Do you think it contains false premises? If so, please explain why.


How would word the concept “overlooking the rest” to reflect what you believe? No, I don’t think people who know not Jesus sin every moment of their life. Also, are you absolutely certain God has no means or methods of enabling people to revisit their sins without it taking several lifetimes to complete?


Your answer didn’t address my question, at least not in a way I can conclude what you believe. In fact, your answer resembled – No. You seem to be saying individual sins are not revisited, that they are lumped together and treated as one. But the passages I posted clearly say “every” thought, word, and deed will be closely investigated. You seem to think the repeated use of the word “every” in the following passages mean individual sins are consolidated and treated as one or grouped together and treated collectively:


I cannot understand why you think these passages mean something other than the fact each sin of each person will be revisited in judgment.


You cited me as a reference. I do not believe revisiting their sins will cause them to die. I also believe God prevents FMAs from dying prematurely by veiling the radiant firelight of His person and presence. Are you sure you agree with me?

Do you think God’s voice, hand, face, and back are symbols? If so, what do they symbolize?


The Father communicated to Moses through the Son. So, do you agree with both points?


I don’t know how tall Jesus was when He showed His hand and back to Moses. He may have been slightly taller than Adam.


Do you think God will fully reveal His character during judgment? Do you think the wicked are capable of comprehending His character? And, do you think it is necessary to suffer and die? Do you think it will cause them to experience the full force of their sin and guilt eventually ending in second death?


You believe DA 108 (posted below) proves the character of God will cause the wicked to suffer and die. It would be nice to know if you believe the two words mean the same thing in the context of judgment.

“At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked. {DA 107.4}

Do you disagree with what you wrote above? Here it is again: “[The] divinity flashing through humanity may not have continued for a long enough time, or have been an intense enough revelation of God's character to cause their death. God wasn't intending that they should die.” (120989)


Do you think comprehending the character of God in judgment is possible and necessary?


I’m referring to what I posted above: “So, you believe He will somehow control the intensity and length of time His character impacts them while they are revisiting their sins in judgment.” Is this what you believe? If not, please explain.


Do you disagree with the summary I posted? If so, please explain why.

I was responding to a question you asked. This isn't the way I think of this. A better answer on my part would have been to point out that this is in, IMO, an odd way of thinking about this.

Of my own initiative, I would not put things this way.



If I said that one needs to know God to comprehend His character, which you are aware of. So I'm not understanding your question here. Are you speaking of the lost? If so, they don't know God, right? So I would have already answered this by my former comment.



The way I put it makes is clear that the problem is with the choices the wicked themselves have made. Your summary doesn't seem to make this point. Also your summary speaks of comprehending God's character, which mine doesn't. It terms of 1) and 2), if put in terms of their own choice being the problem, I think those could be OK.

This is too vague for me to comment on.



Their death is the inevitable result of their sin. Wherever there is sin, suffering and death are inevitable.



This is vague too. I looked on this page for something by Rosangela, and didn't see anything. I didn't comment on what she wrote?



The point I mentioned. I think the proportionate suffering is a direct result of their sin, not how long they are burned for.



I've already answered these questions. Regarding the emotional agony not being mentioned in the 7 point chronology, this isn't the only passage to consider. I think Kevin H's post, especially part 2, was excellent in regards to this.



This doesn't make sense to me. We're talking about the suffering of the lost, which are human beings. The passages which discuss the judgment mention both. That has nothing to do with anything.



???



Why are you asking this? You didn't address what I wrote.



I think your question is too vague. Obviously there are differences. For example, the wicked won't be crucified; that's a different in "way." Christ was killed because He was hated. That's a difference, if you're thinking of the motivations of those who caused His death. If you're thinking of His experiencing the second death, we're told that He suffered the death that was ours that we might live the life that was His, so that looks to be equating His second death experience to what ours would have been had He not died for us. There are a few quick thoughts.



I think how they can all be true is something we need to think about. I've spent a lot of time doing so, and have shared my thoughts regarding this, in the detailed posts I've written on the subject.



It seems to contain an obvious false premise.



If they've cut themselves off from life, how can they be alive, as your question supposes?



The way I did when I posted before.



This seems different to me than what you have written before. It seems to me you thought one was sinning continuously until one is born again.

Is it your idea that God skips from sin to sin in the judgment of the wicked, skipping over everything else?



This question doesn't make sense to me. Why would you even think I consider this as a possibility, let along be certain of it?



What I believe is that your question isn't the right way of looking at it. I explained that, and explained what I think the right way of looking at it is.



No, I didn't say this.



Does it say each one will be investigated by the wicked? The passages seem to me to be saying that their cases will be thoroughly investigated by God.



No.



These don't seem to me to be speaking of the wicked's activities, but God's.



I'm not following you.



These were rich in meaning for those who lived in an Eastern culture. They still are. I'll put it that way. Regarding what these things signified, this is easily discovered online.

The important thing that was happening was the revelation of God's character. I hope you see that.



Ok, so you're asking if Jesus Christ revealed His back to Moses? Regarding if it was Christ who spoke to Moses, yes, I agree.



I think God will reveal His character during the judgment. I think that the primary purpose of the judgment is the vindication of His character and government.



I've answered this.



I've answered this.



I've expressed what I think in my own words. If you mean the same thing by your words as I meant by mine, then I do. I've also quoted Ty Gibson regarding this.



You're asking if the statement, “At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming" is talking about two different things? Or one thing? Is this the question?

Do you disagree with what you wrote above? Do you think you inadvertently wrote something you believe is false or erroneous? Or, have you simply changed your mind and you no longer believe it?


Tom, please be patient with me. Don’t expect too much from me. I’m not the swiftest swallow in the sky. I need you to spell it out clearly. I’m not very good at piecing together your ideas and formulating correct conclusions. This is painfully obvious.

Yes, I am speaking of sinners revisiting their sins during judgment. If they are incapable of comprehending the character of God, what purpose will it serve for God to fully reveal His character to them? Why do you think His character will cause them to suffer and die? How could it have that kind of spiritual affect?


So, do you believe the full revelation of God’s character contributes in any way to their suffering and second death? If so, please explain how and why. That is, explain why you think they are capable of suffering spiritually and dying physically when God reveals His character during judgment.

Also, do you think experiencing the full force of sin and guilt during judgment will result in the wicked 1) choosing to refuse their place in heaven, 2) choosing to separate themselves from God, 3) choosing to cut themselves off from their only source of life, and that 4) these choices result in them dying second death?