Does God have a will? Is it free (sovereign)?
What is the definition of "FMB"?

There appears to be an association between FMB and Sin. That should not be. Please note that there are many FMB's in the Universe that did not sin.

Free = Sovereign
Moral = Judge of right and wrong

So an FMB = Sovereign Judge of right and wrong. Such is God, but Christ also said: Joh 10:34 ... Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

To be created in the image of god means to be an FMB. That is why we use the expression FMB to differentiate from creatures that are not Judges.

Now if we combine these points together, we get:

Sovereign Judge of right and wrong who is faithful in righteousness.

To this purpose and this end is what God created all FMB's to be. Sin was not necessary for this to happen, but it was certainly possible, considering the powers vested.

A question Mike,
In the light of your idea of "God's foreknowledge"
How does God have a free will?

In the light of your conclusion, how do you place the words of the savior, Mike?

How did Satan present himself before God re Job?
How did Satan stand before God accusing the brethren day and night on an ongoing basis?
What did Christ mean by "NOW"? What was Satan cast out of in John 12:31.
What was Jesus beholding falling from Heaven and when in Luke 10:18?
When was the NOW of
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night?
When was the power of Christ established?
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

John B., yes, Adam and Eve were able, in and of themselves, to reproduce the character of God. "It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous." SC 62. This state will be restored when Jesus returns.

Does God's foreknowledge rob Him of His freedom to choose? Not at all. Rather, it accounts for His ability to rule infallibly. When endowed with foresight, who needs hindsight? Certainly not God. That's why we can trust His promises concerning the future.

Regarding God, Satan, the sons of God, and Job - it doesn't say they met in heaven. Concerning Rev 12:10, I agree with Sister White (quoted above in one of the posts).

God Understands Exactly the Working of the Human Mind.--The Lord God is exact and infallible in His comprehension. He understands the working of the human mind, the active principles of the human agents He has formed, just how they will be moved upon by the objects that come before them, and in what manner they will act under every temptation that can try them, and in every circumstance in which they are placed. {2MCP 781.3}

"For the ways of man are before the eyes of the Lord, and He pondereth all his goings" (Proverbs 5:21). "The eyes of the Lord are in every place" (Proverbs 15:3). "He looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven" (Job 28:24). "The Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts" (1 Chronicles 28:9). He knows the things that come into our minds, every one of them. "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do" (Hebrews 4:13).--Lt 18, 1895. {2MCP 782.1}

God Knows All the Mysterious Workings of the Human Mind.--Will men and women consider how God regards the creatures He has made? He formed man's mind. We do not think one noble thought that does not come from Him. He knows all the mysterious workings of the human mind, for did He not make it? God sees that sin has debased and degraded man, but He looks upon him with pity and compassion; for He sees that Satan has him in his power.--MS 56, 1899. (6BC 1105.) {2MCP 782.2}

5 (Col. 3:10). Every Faculty to Reflect the Divine Mind.--It was a wonderful thing for God to create man, to make mind. The glory of God is to be revealed in the creation of man in God's image and in his redemption. One soul is of more value than a world. God created man that every faculty might be the faculty of the divine mind. The Lord Jesus Christ is the author of our being, and He is also the author of our redemption, and everyone who will enter the kingdom of God will develop a character that is the counterpart of the character of God. None can dwell with God in the holy heaven but those who bear His likeness. Those who are to be redeemed are to be overcomers; they are to be elevated, pure, one with Christ (Letter 55, 1895). {6BC 1105.5}

The Power of Intellect.--Intellect ennobled, purified, heaven directed, is the universal power to build up the kingdom of God. Intellect perverted, has exactly the opposite influence; it is a corrupting of the human power given in trust to be multiplied in earnest labor for good. It deceives and destroys. God has given sufficient endowments to make men capable and wise to carry forward, and strongly and graciously to represent, the Lord's wonderful works to all those who love Him and obey His commandments (MS 63, 1900). {6BC 1105.7}

Another point which has not been brought out lately is the fact there are two distinct types of law. So when Mike states "The law was, and still is, the thing that determines sin and sinlessness both in God's mind and man's mind, and in reality," it is necessary to also determine which type of law is being specified.

When we think of laws we usually think of rules that are intended to control our conduct, our activities. Which side of the road we drive on, how much taxes we pay, the difference between murder and manslaughter, etc., etc. These laws are determined by some type of authority such as legislators, governors, judges, parents, teachers, coaches, etc. They are arbitrary, sometimes capricious, subject to change, and usually temporary. What is wrong today may be ideal behavior tomorrow or vica versa. Typically these laws carry punishments which are also arbitrary, sometimes capricious, subject to change, and usually temporary.

But that's not the only type of law. There are also natural or scientific laws. Laws like the laws of gravity, momentum, electro-magnetism, and thermodynamics. These laws are not legislated, they are discovered. And they are universal and unchangeable. Unlike legislated laws, there is no punishment involved with these laws since they cannot be broken or disobeyed. One either cooperates with them or suffers the consequences of disregarding them.

At different times, God has given us both kinds of laws. And the word "sin" is used in scripture to represent disregard for both kinds of law. When the slaves were brought out of Egypt, for instance, God helped Moses organize the civil government and provided a rudimentary foundation for many other aspects of their lives. God also established the sanctuary rituals and helped Solomon design the temple. But all these were temporary, legislated laws. For the most part, God seems to have expected humans to govern themselves and provide their own laws. I would submit that disobedience to any of these legislated laws are the "sin that does not lead to death" (I John 5:16,17). But the laws that have wages which bring death (Rom 6:23, I John 5:16) are sins against natural laws, not legislated ones.

RL

Mike, you quoted the passage that answers the question from DA, but didn't answer it! Allow me to pose the question again: How did Christ's death on the cross cause Satan to be cast down? Is this referring to a physical limitation only? (Hint: the answer is in the passage you quoted!)

You called my question, "Was it God's intention that sin exist?" an ill-worded question. Why? I thought it was quite well worded. I could have worded it like this: "Did God plan for sin to exists?" or this "Did God want sin to exist?" or this "Was it God's will that sin exist?" Are any of these worded better?

What the question is asking is if when God started creation it was His desire that sin should come into being. Given your viewpoint, I don't see how you could answer any other way by yes, if you are at all logical.

quote:

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Thus, sin was inevitable. Not necessary, just inevitable. Why? We cannot adequately answer this answer. That's just the way it is.

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IMO, the fact that you so often are compelled to write things like this shows the weakness of your point of view. What you wrote shows you to view God as arbitrary. Statements such as "that's just the way it is" are arbitrary. That you have to write such a thing should make loud bells go off saying "Maybe there's something here I'm not getting!"

Boblee, I like the way you differentiated between natural and legislated laws. Thank you. But I would add that all holy, just and loving laws are based on God’s eternal law and are, therefore, just as binding – whether of human or divine origin. Note Paul’s counsel to the Romans below. Also, violation of the physical laws is a violation of God’s moral law, and is considered, if one refuses to repent, a sin unto death. Thus, I believe the sin that is not unto death is any sin we commit ignorantly, unwittingly. The punishment for unconfessed, unforsaken sin is not death, but rather the soul anguish one suffers prior to expiring in the lake of fire. Death is the end of punishment, not necessarily the punishment itself.

Romans
13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

4bSG 43 (1T 202.1)
I saw that the Lord yet has something to do with the laws of the land. While Jesus is in the sanctuary, God's restraining spirit is felt by rulers and people. But Satan controls to a great extent the great mass in the world, and were it not for the laws of the land, we should experience great suffering. {4bSG 43.1}

CD 43
The transgression of physical law is the transgression of God's law... And the human being who is careless and reckless of the habits and practices that concern his physical life and health, sins against God. {CD 43.3}

TSB 131
What did God command Moses to do with those who were guilty of adultery? They should be stoned to death. Does the punishment end there? No, they are to die the second death. The stoning system has been done away, but the penalty for transgressing God's law is not done away. If the transgressor does not heartily repent, he will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. {TSB 131.3}

GC 544
But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression--"the wages of sin." They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. {GC 544.2}