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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#121680
11/20/09 05:11 AM
11/20/09 05:11 AM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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Dedication,
Take comfort in the fact that Mrs. White does not speak to the future of the church, only to its present condition. I do not necessarily believe that the "shaking" will remove 95% of the church. I do believe that it will either put people in line with Christ, or separate them out. In other words, the shaking is also a refining time--which naturally means that some who were previously unprepared, become prepared.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#121690
11/20/09 04:54 PM
11/20/09 04:54 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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But the shaking will shake out all who have not heeded that True Witness. From what I can gather, you believe people will be saved in their sins, that the righteous results of divinity and humanity combined are stained with sin. If this is true, who will remain after the shaking purifies the church of people who are not heeding the message of the True Witness? Ellen wrote: I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance; all who truly receive it will obey it and be purified. {EW 270.3}
Those who profess to keep the law of God and yet at heart are indulging in sin are condemned by the True Witness. They claim to be rich in a knowledge of the truth; but they are not in harmony with its sacred principles. The truth does not sanctify their lives. God's Word declares that the professed commandment-keeper whose life contradicts his faith is blind, wretched, poor, and naked. {FW 31.3}
The counsel of the True Witness is full of encouragement and comfort. The churches may yet obtain the gold of truth, faith, and love, and be rich in heavenly treasure. {FLB 306.6}
Those who come up to every point, and stand every test, and overcome, be the price what it may, have heeded the counsel of the True Witness, and they will receive the latter rain, and thus be fitted for translation. {LHU 375.2}
The True Witness counsels us to buy of Him gold tried in the fire, white raiment, and eyesalve. The gold here recommended as having been tried in the fire is faith and love. It makes the heart rich; for it has been purged until it is pure, and the more it is tested the more brilliant is its luster. The white raiment is purity of character, the righteousness of Christ imparted to the sinner. {4T 88.2} The straight testimony of the True Witness results in "righteousness and true holiness". People are pure. They are in harmony with the character of God. But I hear you saying, "Not so! Everything they think, say, and do is stained with sin." Can Jesus return and receive such people into everlasting favor?
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#121696
11/20/09 07:09 PM
11/20/09 07:09 PM
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Brazil
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But the shaking will shake out all who have not heeded that True Witness.... And -- from what I can gather -- this will include 95% of current Adventists. This roughly matches with what Ellen white said were the conditions at her time: "It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon." {GCB, July 1, 1900 par. 7}
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Rosangela]
#121706
11/21/09 01:05 AM
11/21/09 01:05 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Soon God's people will be tested by fiery trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove to be base metal. . . . {LDE 180.3}
When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882). {LDE 180.4}
As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition.--GC 608 (1911). {LDE 180.6}
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121716
11/21/09 08:35 AM
11/21/09 08:35 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Do I believe people are saved in their sins as you now suggest?
No, -- no one who is in rebellion against God will be saved. No one who clings to sin will be saved. We must forsake all cherished, harbored sins. I've repeated several times that we need to reach a point where we'd rather die than engage in sin and dishonor our Savior.
But you seem to be saying we must have absolute perfection in ourselves in all we are and do or we are not saved.
Absolute perfection in ourselves and refusing to engage in sin are two different things.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#121726
11/21/09 04:31 PM
11/21/09 04:31 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Dedication, please understand that I'm trying discern what you believe. The idea that the righteous results of humanity and divinity combined is stained with sin makes it impossible to say, "I'd rather die than crucify Christ afresh". If everything we think, say, and do is "a form of sinning" how can we not sin? Ellen wrote, "The Lord requires perfection from His redeemed family. He expects from us the perfection which Christ revealed in His humanity. (CG 477) "His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was. (DA 664) "His life and character were the unfolding or representation of the perfection of the character that man may attain by becoming a partaker of the divine nature, and overcoming the world through daily conflicts. (FLB 114) "A genuine conversion changes hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong. (6BC 111) "It was His mission to bring to men complete restoration; He came to give them health and peace and perfection of character. {GW 41.1} "He was manifesting God in humanity. Yet He was the humblest of all the prophets, and He exemplified in His life the truth that the more perfect the character of human beings, the more simple and humble they will be. He has given to men a pattern of what they may be in their humanity, through becoming partakers of the divine nature. {TMK 111.3} She repeatedly compares the perfection of believers to the perfection of Jesus. The perfection Jesus attained is the same perfection available to believers. She also wrote: "None need fail of attaining, in his sphere, to perfection of Christian character. By the sacrifice of Christ, provision has been made for the believer to receive all things that pertain to life and godliness. God calls upon us to reach the standard of perfection and places before us the example of Christ's character. In His humanity, perfected by a life of constant resistance of evil, the Saviour showed that through co-operation with Divinity, human beings may in this life attain to perfection of character. This is God's assurance to us that we, too, may obtain complete victory. {AA 531.2} "God demands perfection from every human being. We are to be perfect in this life of humanity, even as God is perfect in His divine character. {TDG 318.1}
"Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character. {DA 123.3} "We are workers together with God in presenting the perfection of His character in humanity. {AG 229.4} "He came to the world to be a reconstructor of character, and He brought into all His work of building the perfection which He desired to bring into the characters He was transforming by His divine power. {6BC 1103.8}
"The very image of God is to be reproduced in humanity. The honor of God, the honor of Christ, is involved in the perfection of the character of His people. {DA 671.3} "He came to fulfill all righteousness, and, as the head of humanity, to show man that he can do the same work, meeting every specification of the requirements of God. Through the measure of His grace furnished to the human agent, not one need miss heaven. Perfection of character is attainable by every one who strives for it. This is made the very foundation of the new covenant of the gospel. The law of Jehovah is the tree; the gospel is the fragrant blossoms and fruit which it bears. {AG 141.3}
"Love is manifested in kindness, gentleness, forbearance, and longsuffering. The expression of the countenance is changed. The peace of heaven is revealed. There is seen a habitual gentleness, a more than human love. Humanity becomes a partaker of divinity. Christ is honored by perfection of character. As these changes are perfected, angels break forth in rapturous song, and God and Christ rejoice over souls fashioned after the divine similitude. {3SM 239.4} "This experience every one who is saved must have. In the day of judgment, the course of the man who has retained the frailty and imperfection of humanity will not be vindicated. For him there will be no place in heaven. He could not enjoy the perfection of the saints in light. He who has not sufficient faith in Christ to believe that He can keep him from sinning, has not the faith that will give him an entrance into the kingdom of God. {3SM 360.4}
How can we reach the perfection specified by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ--our Great Teacher? Can we meet His requirement and attain to so lofty a standard? We can, else Christ would not have enjoined us to do so. He is our righteousness. In His humanity He has gone before us and wrought out for us perfection of character. We are to have the faith in Him that works by love and purifies the soul. Perfection of character is based upon that which Christ is to us. If we have constant dependence on the merits of our Saviour, and walk in His footsteps, we shall be like Him, pure and undefiled. {TMK 130.3}
We have before us the highest, holiest example. In thought, word, and deed Jesus was sinless. Perfection marked all that He did. He points us to the path that He trod, saying, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matt. 16:24. {FLB 219.2}
Christ unites in His person the fullness and perfection of the Godhead and the fullness and perfection of sinless humanity. He met all the temptations by which Adam was assailed, and overcame these temptations because in His humanity He relied upon divine power. This subject demands far more contemplation than it receives. Christians strike too low. They are content with a superficial spiritual experience, and therefore they have only the glimmerings of light, when ... they might discern more clearly the wonderful perfection of Christ's humanity, which rises far above all human greatness, all human power. Christ's life is a revelation of what fallen human beings may become through union and fellowship with the divine nature. . . . {FLB 219.3}
Men and women frame many excuses for their proneness to sin. Sin is represented as a necessity, an evil that cannot be overcome. But sin is not a necessity. Christ lived in this world from infancy to manhood, and during that time He met and resisted all the temptations by which man is beset. He is a perfect pattern of childhood, of youth, of manhood. {FLB 219.4}
The life of Christ has shown what humanity can do by being partaker of the divine nature. All that Christ received from God we too may have. Then ask and receive. . . . Let your life be knit by hidden links to the life of Jesus. {FLB 219.5} Nothing I quoted on this post implies the righteous results of humanity and divinity combined is stained with sin. Do you agree?
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121732
11/21/09 08:17 PM
11/21/09 08:17 PM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Canada
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Then there is no hope. If it isn't Christ's righteousness and we must do everything that is written to perfection.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#121739
11/22/09 01:52 AM
11/22/09 01:52 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Dedication, aren't both necessary, that is, the imputed and imparted righteousness of Jesus are necessary, right?
And, do you think that God "expects from us the perfection which Christ revealed in His humanity", and that it is experienced in the same way (combining humanity and divinity) and for the same reasons (honor and glorify God, vindicate His character and kingdom)?
"His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was." If they possess perfection in their humanity like Jesus did, how, then, can we say it is stained with sin?
Also, which one of the many quotes posted above do you think implies "whosoever abideth in him sinneth not" means their "righteousness and true holiness" is stained with sin? Why would it be stained with sin?
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121740
11/22/09 02:04 AM
11/22/09 02:04 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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PS - I'm suggesting the straight testimony of the True Witness is the third angel's message, namely, righteousness by faith (imputed and imparted). When this message accomplishes its work, Jesus will return. Ellen wrote:
God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. (FW 100)
Every sin must be renounced as the hateful thing that crucified the Lord of life and glory, and the believer must have a progressive experience by continually doing the works of Christ. It is by continual surrender of the will, by continual obedience, that the blessing of justification is retained. (1SM 397)
Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message, and I have answered, "It is the third angel's message in verity." (EV 190) Verity means - Something, such as a statement, principle, or belief, that is true, especially an enduring truth.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121750
11/22/09 12:42 PM
11/22/09 12:42 PM
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Brazil
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Dedication, aren't both necessary, that is, the imputed and imparted righteousness of Jesus are necessary, right? The question is, Will we need Christ's imputed righteousness at the time of trouble? Yes or No? (Please bear in mind that I'm not referring to past sins, as these will have been blotted out, that is, they will no longer exist by this time.)
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