MM, regarding #122015, I don't see that you answered my question, which is, "Did he lose his salvation when he lost his temper and struck the rock? What's your answer? Is it 'yes'?" Please answer the question "yes" or "no," and then explain your answer.

Is this like a yo-yo? Sin and no longer righteous = not saved. Repent = forgiven = saved again? This happens at least 5 times a day, being in and out of salvation?

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It become a yo-yo when as MM said, our salvation is like a on/off switch. But I don't feel my salvation is like a yo-yo or an on/off switch, because, I have anchored my faith in Christ and ask his forgiveness more than one time a day whether I sinned or not, thus, salvation for me is a fix and concrete thing. Anyway we are saved by the grace of God through faith. Which tome means:
1. An Objective truth, that Christ had saved me through his redemption death, that gives life to sinners
2. A subjective truth, that salvation is secured as long we anchored our faith in Christ.

"But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him. But we are not those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who BELIEVE AND ARE SAVED. - Hebrews 10:38, 39.

In His love

James, I'm asking this because you wrote, "Of course when we sinned we are no longer righteous. The moment we repent and ask God forgiveness, when he forgives, we are just and righteous again."

If we're not righteous the moment we sin, then how can we be saved? That would mean that one is saved, but not righteous. Is that what you mean to say?

It depends on the person. Judas sinned and was not saved. King Saul sinned and was not saved. And the list goes on. However, Moses sinned and was saved. King David sinned and was saved. And the list goes on. So, what makes the difference? Sinning is sinning, so there's no difference on that account. "All have sinned." And the wages of sin is damnation and death not pardon and salvation.

I believe the difference has to do with the person who sins. If it is in their heart to repent the moment they sin, if it is their habit to repent the moment they sin, then it stands to reason they do not forfeit their salvation when they sin. Technically, I suppose, they are lost while in the throes of sinning, but in practicality they are saved since inevitably they will repent. The same thing applies if they should die while in the throes of sinning.

If this is your view, then I'm confused for, according to this view, a comparison of salvation with a light switch does not make sense. It didn't work like a light switch for Moses, and it doesn't work like that for other sincere Christians.

Let me try asking the question another way. Had Moses hit the rock, and died, before having a chance to repent, would have he have been lost? I'm guessing you would say, no, he would have been lost, because God knew that had he lived, he would have repented. Is this right? If so, then doesn't it follow that Moses did not lose his salvation?

Tom and Rosangela, salvation is based on two things, namely, the imputed and imparted righteousness of Jesus. Sinning cancels the privileges of salvation. Experiencing the gift of repentance restores it. In the same way sinning would have disqualified Jesus, so too, sinning disqualifies us. Moses sinned and died in a save state because he repented.

Had he refused to repent he would have died lost. But it was his custom to repent. Had he died in the throes of sinning, I have no doubt God would have imputed repentance. "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom 4:7, 8) "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:17)

“All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin; but that which is wrought through faith is acceptable to God. {FW 94.1} “While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works. {FW 111.1} “Our good works alone will not save any of us, but we cannot be saved without good works. {AG 309.3}

“Faith and works go together, believing and doing are blended. The Lord requires no less of the soul now, than He required of Adam in Paradise before he fell -- perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. {1SM 373.1} “Those who profess great faith, yet have not works, will not be saved by their faith. {2T 657.2}

“All who are saved must fight manfully as soldiers of Jesus Christ; then they will be registered in heaven's books as true and faithful. They are to work the works of Jesus Christ, fight the good fight of faith. {UL 377.6} “Keeping the commandments of God requires of us good works, self-denial, self-sacrifice, and devotion for the good of others, not that our good works alone can save us, but that we surely cannot be saved without good works. {TMK 334.3}

“All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin; but that which is wrought through faith is acceptable to God. {FW 94.1}

"Nothing less than repentance, confession, and forsaking of sin is acceptable to God. {1T 536.2}

"Only the service that is performed in sincerity, with a humble, contrite heart, is acceptable to God. {UL 73.5}

"We need to realize the necessity of exercising that faith which is acceptable to God -- the faith which works by love and purifies the soul. {UL 75.3}

"The root must be holy, else there can be no sound, healthy fruit, which alone is acceptable to God. The heart must be converted and consecrated. The motives must be right. {7T 248.3}

"In order to serve Him aright, we must be born of the divine Spirit. This will purify the heart and renew the mind, giving us a new capacity for knowing and loving God. It will give us a willing obedience to all His requirements. This is true worship. It is the fruit of the working of the Holy Spirit. By the Spirit every sincere prayer is indited, and such prayer is acceptable to God. {DA 189.2}

PS - Some say all such fruit bearing is unacceptable to God. The evidence suggests otherwise.

When we sinned we are no longer a righteous person, the wage of sin is death, we deserve to die, but Christ has died for us in order we may live. He had saved us unto eternal life, it is only a question of: could we maintain this salvation in our life? How? Through faith!

Does a person lost his salvation the moment he sinned? I think, NO! He is not lost yet, TILL the time God closed "the door of mercy" for him. Until then, he was still safe but not righteous, he becomes righteous again the moment he repent!!

In His love

How could a person repent the MOMENT he sinned? I never hear such thing!! He may repent but at least some minutes later, or maybe hour or days...

In His love