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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121978
12/01/09 09:46 PM
12/01/09 09:46 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121979
12/01/09 09:46 PM
12/01/09 09:46 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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A lot is written about the covenant in the "SDA Believe" book. Here's a foot note: 11) The New Testament associates the experience of Israel at Mount Sinai with the old covenant (Gal. 4:24, 25). At Sinai God renews His everlasting covenant of grace to His people who had been liberated (1 Chron. 16:14-17; Ps. 105:8-11; Gal. 3:15-17). God promises them, "If you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Ex. 19:5, 6; cf. Gen. 17:7, 9, 19). The covenant was based on righteousness by faith (Rom. 10:6-8; Deut. 30:11-14) and the law was to be written in their heart (Deut. 6:4-6; 30:14).
The covenant of grace is always subject to perversion by the believers' turning it into a system of salvation by works. Paul used Abraham's failure to trust God—his depending on his own works to solve his problems—as an illustration of the old covenant (Genesis 16; 12:10-20; 20; Gal. 4:22-25). In fact the experience of righteousness by works has existed ever since sin entered this world and the everlasting covenant was broken (Hosea 6:7).
Throughout Israel's history the majority tried "to establish their own righteousness" through "the works of the law" (Rom. 9:30-10:4). They lived according to the letter, not according to the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:6). Trying to justify themselves by the law (Gal. 5:4), they lived under the condemnation of the law and are in bondage, not in freedom (Gal. 4:21-23). Thus they perverted the Sinai covenant. The book of Hebrews applies the first, or old, covenant to the history of Israel since Sinai and reveals its temporary nature. It shows that the Levitical priesthood was to be temporary, performing a symbolic function until the reality in Christ had arrived (Hebrews 9; 10). Sadly enough many failed to see that in themselves the ceremonies were worthless (Heb. 10:1). Adherence to this system of "shadows" when type had met antitype, shadow had met reality, distorted the true mission of Christ. Hence the strong language used to stress the superiority of the better, or new, covenant over Sinai.
The old covenant, therefore, can be described in negative and positive terms. Negatively, it refers to the people's perversion of God's everlasting covenant. Positively, it stands for the temporary earthly ministry designed by God to meet the emergency created by this human failure. See also White, Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 370-73; White, "Our Work," Review and Herald, June 23, 1904, p. 8; White, "A Holy Purpose to Restore Jerusalem" Southern Watchman, March 1, 1904, p. 142; Hasel, Covenant in Blood (Mountain View, CA: Pacific Press, 1982); cf. Wallenkampf, Salvation Comes From the Lord (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald, 1983), pp. 84-90. Regarding the human nature of Jesus, chapter 4 does a good job of describing it.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#121985
12/01/09 11:36 PM
12/01/09 11:36 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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This seems a bit confused. It looks quite different from what Waggoner wrote, and point #6 from the Gospel truths. Do you not see how they're different? (that being said, it does have some nice thoughts).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Tom]
#121992
12/02/09 05:08 PM
12/02/09 05:08 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Did Waggoner say anything regarding the covenants and the human nature of Jesus that is missing in the "SDA's Believe" book? If so, is it one of the reasons Jesus' arrival is not more likely to happen than before?
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#122002
12/03/09 04:24 AM
12/03/09 04:24 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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What Waggoner wrote about the Covenants is not the same as what's in the SDA's Believe book. You can verify this for yourself by comparing what Waggoner wrote to what's in the book. You can look here http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT04RedeemedfromtheCurse.htm under "The Covenants of Promise" and here http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT05TheAdoptionofSons.htm under "These are the Two Covenants" as well as "Mount Sinai and Mount Zion". Regarding Jesus' arrival, we know from the SOP that through Jones and Waggoner God sent a message to prepare a people to stand in the day of God. For convenience of study, we break the message down into topics, but I think one should really consider the whole of the message in terms of the preparation for Christ's coming. I'm sure that Jones and Waggoner did not conceive of the message they were sharing in a broken apart fashion, but rather as a coherent message.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Tom]
#122025
12/04/09 04:51 AM
12/04/09 04:51 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Tom, I don't see a huge, fundamental difference. Apparently you do. Do you think the points of truth you believe are missing in our message today is one of the reasons why Jesus hasn't returned yet? If so, please name them. Thank you.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#122179
12/13/09 06:22 AM
12/13/09 06:22 AM
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Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
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Posts: 6,598
Canada
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Waggonner's book "The Glad Tidings" already has his Panentheism concepts embedded in it. These Panentheism concepts constituted the "alpha of apostacy".
We need to be careful.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: dedication]
#122193
12/13/09 10:56 PM
12/13/09 10:56 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Dedication, is there any evidence to suggest Ellen warned us not to read "The Glad Tidings"?
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#122198
12/14/09 02:56 AM
12/14/09 02:56 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Tom, I don't see a huge, fundamental difference. Apparently you do. Do you think the points of truth you believe are missing in our message today is one of the reasons why Jesus hasn't returned yet? If so, please name them. Thank you. I don't think this is the right way of looking at this. Truth from heaven isn't like mathematics, that we can chop into different axioms or definitions or lemmas and say if you're missing this or that you can't make the proof you're trying to make. What we know is that God sent us a message for the purpose of preparing a people for the coming of Christ through A. T. Jones and E. J. Waggoner, and that message was not accepted. As to what that message was, the best way to determine this is to read what the messengers said and wrote. There are a lot of things which have been preserved for us. From Waggoner I'd suggest starting with "Christ And His Righteousness," which is material actually presented at the 1888 GC session, according to Froom. Also interesting is "The Gospel in Galatians," which discusses the law in Galatians, a disagreement which was going on at that time. Many today take the position of Butler, who Waggoner argued against, without realizing what they are doing. I found reading this pamphlet very helpful in understanding Galatians (and Romans too). From Jones, I've recommended you look at "A Consecrated Way to Perfection," which I'm almost certain you would agree with almost completely, and would enjoy reading.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do current conditions suggest Jesus' arrival is more likely than before?
[Re: Tom]
#122201
12/14/09 03:24 AM
12/14/09 03:24 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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Tom, I cannot think of anything J&W wrote with the stamp of God's approval that we are not preaching today. I confess, however, the evidence suggests most SDA's are not living in harmony with it. Many seem to believe not even Jesus can empower us to "go and sin no more".
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