Some advice for you, if you're serious about teaching any kind of truth: you must abstain from comments like the one above. It makes the student feel stupid and makes the teacher look arrogant. It is a fast way to effectively end the transfer of knowledge.

That method might work for math and science, but it does not work at all with spiritual truths.

Sorry asygo, I didn't mean it like that. I shouldn't of said it.The thought wasn't directed at you. I get alot of flak over this stuff, and I guess that's what triggered the poor statement. I've been getting rained on daily with thoughts relating to this kinda stuff several years now (regardless of if I wanted it to or not.) As a result, whenever someone starts mocking my research I get irritated. (Again, this isn't refering to you.) I'm sorry I offended you.

My poorly worded comment was essentialy a negatively angled summation of a prior statement:



I failed to say that if something is spiritualy diserned, then the Holy Spirit will surely reveal its truth to anyone receptive to God's leading.

I believe the relationship between General Relativity and FF has relavence to the creatures with wheels represented in Ezekiel. GR has two key points: space-time and the equivalence principle. Einstein made the claim that time and space are not seporate. The principle of equivalence basicly states that gravity and acceleration are equivolent. FF reaches even further. The speed of light marks the limit of time-space. Gravitation is commonly refered to as curved time-space. According to FF, the following statements are also true:

space is equivolent to curved space
time is equivolent to curved time
time and space are not seporate
curved time and curved space are not seporate
time and curved space are not seporate
curved time and space are not seporate

When space is divided by time you have speed. (In this situation, the speed of light.) When curved space (angular displacement) is divided by curved time ("angular" time) you have angular velocity. (This describes gravity)

There's are a number of things that remain undecyphered about the four creatures. There are several key words I'd like to focus on in Ezekiel, but I am not going to speak of what they symbolize.

northern windstorm
geat cloud
fire infolding itself
brightness
color of amber
four living creatures
likeness of a man
four faces
four wings
straight feet
calf's foot
color of brass
man's hands under wings on four sides
joined wings
straight movement/no turning
face of a man (front)
face of a lion (right)
face of an ox (left)
face of an eagle (back)
wings streched upward
two wings of every one were joined
two wings covered their bodies
they went where the spirit would go
likeness of coals of fire (bright, with lightning flashing out)
likeness of lamps moving up and down among the creatures
creatures moved back and forth like a flash of lightning
one wheel on the earth by the creatures
appearance of the "wheels" AND their work
color of beryl
the four had one likeness
wheel within a wheel
rings (high and dreadful, full of eyes)
wheels lifted up with creatures
wheels "lifted up over against them"

With guidance from the Holy Spirit, God will allow any who are willing to discern the meaning of these symbols.
(yes, this is a test)

JCS, your kind and repentif filled words in seeking reconciliation is a rebuke to many of us. Thank you for caring enough to expressed these words and humbly showing us your heart and setting up an important prerequisit tone for understanding truths. Your warnings above are very sobering and true. Only through Christ can He guide us in truths and shield us from strong delusions.

Time is at hand and we need to come together to seek God's end time message and to receive the outpouring of His spirit reserve to equip us to give the last outcry in "the last end of indignation" which are fast approaching.

Thank you for warmly inviting us to study together these symbols. I've been puzzled for the past few months seeking the meaning of the 4 living creatues and I'm glad you brought these up. Also, I am quite interested to understand deeper the meaning of "light" and hopefully "darkness" from His creation work.

I was not offended. I am a (wannabe) scientist, so facts are facts, whether I like it or not. Calculus is awesome, even if Newton was a jerk and Leibniz was a liar.

I've taken enough physics classes, especially plasma physics, so that I'm used to feeling stupid. But my stupidity will not deter me from investigating a topic of interest. I just seek out the teachers that are most helpful in overcoming my ignorance. More than to physics, this applies to spiritual matters.

However, not everyone is like me. Most will flame you, then, if you're lucky, ignore you. If you have truth to share, you do not want to shoo away your students.

But something else to keep in mind. How you react under provocation will improve your credibility in spiritual matters much more than any calculations you can provide.

I need to confess something. When I was a kid I asked God to enlighten me with secret knowledge in science. I asked this because of my interest in astronomy and complete faith in the Genesis account. These two areas seemed in conflict regarding starlight. Now it seems my prayers were answered and I am of course thankful. However, I'm finding out that this knowledge carries a great weight of responsiblity. I do not deserve this critical role in the church nor do I any way merit its responsibility. I do not fulfill what is expected of a spiritual leader. For these reasons I have been pleading with God to help me find someone else who can continue with this work. I am more than willing to help in any way, I just don't want to continue this lone voice in the wilderness bit anymore. There has got to be someone else in the world with a gift of spiritual dicernment and has a handle on advanced science. I am probably THE worst spiritual witness that this world has ever seen in its entire history.

Are you aware of anybody else in the church with your kind of scientific knowledge who is, either in agreement with you, is thinking along the same line of thought as you, or are you presently the only one who thinks this way?

Personally, as a layperson in this area, I am interested in this sort of thing, but a not with the expertise to determine its validity or non-validity, therefore, I look to others with your type of expertise to respond.

I may send out a notice to all our members about this thread.

I decided to split this from another topic into its own topic and place it in the Search For Truth forum.

Due to the advanced physics revealed by the four creatures in Ezekiel 1, I've elected to not fully decypher its meaning (too dangerous). However, I went ahead and studied Ezeikel 1:27-28 (the glory of the Lord). Here's what I found.

"glowing metal" (M) times "full of fire" (E) equals

"fire" (E) times "brilliant light" (E/c^2) equals

"glory of the Lord" (E^2/c^2)

with the appearance of a radiant rainbow (curved dispersion of energy in light)

I searched the internet to discover any validity to this E^2/c^2 and found this statement from an MIT lecture:

"Transcript - Lecture 28

8.02 Electricity and Magnetism, Spring 2002
I'm going to talk today about energy in electromagnetic waves.

There must be energy in there, because we know that electric fields contain energy, and magnetic fields contain energy.

And you may remember that the electric field energy density is one-half epsilon zero E squared, this is now in joules per cubic meter, and the magnetic energy field density, which also has come up earlier in the course, is one over two mu zero times B squared. Again, joules per cubic meter.

Now, we -- when we deal with traveling waves, in vacuum, at any moment in time, the magnitude of B is E divided by C.

So this is also one divided by two mu zero, I can replace this by E squared divided by C squared.

But C squared is one over epsilon zero my zero.

So this is also one-half epsilon zero E squared. And when you see this, this is an absolutely amazing result, because what this tells you is that the energy density in the magnetic field of a traveling wave is exactly the same as the energy density in the electric field of an electromagnetic wave.

That's really an amazing thing, the symmetry is absolutely beautiful."

I then went on and read a sobering warning and command in chapter 2.

Chapter 2

2:1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.
2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, [even] unto this very day.
2:4 For [they are] impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD.
2:5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.
2:6 And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns [be] with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house.
2:7 And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they [are] most rebellious.
2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
2:9 And when I looked, behold, an hand [was] sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book [was] therein;
2:10 And he spread it before me; and it [was] written within and without: and [there was] written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe.

In EZ 2:8 (NIV) God is chastising the person whom the message was given like a loving father disciplining a wayward son.

"Do not rebel like that rebelious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you."

The last part means to spiritualy digest the inspiration given and to openly present it to the rebelious house. It seems very clear that God inspired this message, thousands of years ago, to reprimend me for what I said before.

I feel so ashamed.

I don't see the link between the symbols and the physics. Why are:
M = glowing metal
E = full of fire

Why multiply them? What is the significance of mass x energy?

I am assuming that in the above calculation, M = mass and E = energy because you replaced M with E/c2.

Then you quoted what you found during your search for the validity of E2/c2. But there's a problem. The E in that description is not the relativistic energy, but the the electric field. The E of E=mc2 is a scalar for the energy, while the E of E=cB is a vector for the electric field. They are two different entities.

So, while the algebra is correct, I don't see the physics.