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Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Elle] #150228
03/01/13 11:22 PM
03/01/13 11:22 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Looks like the same one that I linked to in page 1 of this thread.
Originally Posted By: Elle
Here's the copy of the Book of Jasher that does not contradict the Bible by an serious SDA Bible student and Dr. Stephen Jones.

Let me know if there's any problem opening the file.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Elle] #150231
03/01/13 11:43 PM
03/01/13 11:43 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Elle
Here's the copy of the Book of Jasher that does not contradict the Bible by an serious SDA Bible student and Dr. Stephen Jones.

Let me know if there's any problem opening the file.

My browser won't let me download this file, for some reason. It's trying to download a script (ubbthreads) instead. Can someone just verify for me that it is the same or different from what I posted a link to in post #122625?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150234
03/02/13 12:12 AM
03/02/13 12:12 AM
E
Elle  Offline
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Posts: 2,536
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It looks like the same copy you posted on page 4.

GC could you tell me where you found contradiction and other problems.


Blessings
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Rosangela] #150252
03/02/13 01:40 AM
03/02/13 01:40 AM
Rick H  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
There are other books mentioned in the Bible which are not part of the Bible, like for instance the book of the prophet Iddo (2 Chron. 13:22) and the letter of Paul to the church of Laodicea (Col. 4:16). They were probably writings of local application and God didn't find it necessary for them to be included in the canon.

The book of Jasher mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Sam. 1:18 probably doesn't refer to a person called Jasher. It literally means "Book of the Upright." In Siryac it is called "Book of Praises" or "Book of Hymns." It was probably a collection of songs, and it is mentioned that a song of David was included in it (2 Sam. 1:19-27). It has nothing to do with the modern book of Jasher, an 18th century forgery alleging to be a translation of the lost book of Jasher by Alcuin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jasher_%28Pseudo-Jasher%29
Interesting....

Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150253
03/02/13 01:46 AM
03/02/13 01:46 AM
Rick H  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Having done further readings from the book of Jasher, I am now thoroughly convinced that it is a forgery by a gifted novelista. It is so fictitious and salacious as to defy all reason, and does not match any sacred writings I have ever seen.

Some of the more exaggerated portions are much like a modern cartoon-movie. Jacob's sons, for example, are given super-human powers when fighting against multiple tribes and walled cities. They fly to the tops of city walls like superman, and when their swords are knocked away by their enemies, they scream with such force that it terrifies them and causes those battle-hardened warriors to run and hide.

The story of Abraham offering his son Isaac has the devil, among other things, creating a rushing river in the path in front of them, to keep Abraham from going through with it...and then the devil, appearing as a man, lies to Sarah in his absence, saying that Isaac is dead--which causes Sarah to go into such grief that she later dies of it before Abraham ever returns to enlighten her. We know, of course, that this is a patently false representation.

I certainly will not believe anything in the entire book from now on.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Sounds like it was wise to keep it out of Canon..much like the Apocrypha..

Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Rick H] #150259
03/02/13 05:09 AM
03/02/13 05:09 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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5500+ Member
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The Orient



Biblical Standard Compared to Book of Jasher: Trivia or Serious?
Part 1
The Holy Bible (KJV)The Book of JasherComments
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (Genesis 5:2)And God blessed them and called their names Adam and Eve in the day that he created them, and the Lord God said, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. (Jasher 1:6)This "slight" difference might seem like added detail in Jasher, except that God did not give Eve her name. Compare Genesis 3:20-- "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."
Either God gave Eve her name (per Jasher) or Adam named Eve (per the Bible)
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. (Genesis 3:17-19, 4:11-12)
And the Lord God drove them that day from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which they were taken, and they went and dwelt at the east of the garden of Eden; and Adam knew his wife Eve and she bore two sons and three daughters. ...

But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.

And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death. (Jasher 1:12, 31-32)
Jasher says Cain was the recipient of the curse of thorns and thistles, but the Bible tells us that Adam's sin brought this curse upon the whole earth. Think about this: if only Cain were thus cursed, what kind of fairness would it be that ALL people must deal with thorns and thistles?
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5:3)And it was in the hundred and thirtieth year of the life of Adam upon the earth, that he again knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare a son in his likeness and in his image, and she called his name Seth, saying, Because God has appointed me another seed in the place of Abel, for Cain has slain him. (Jasher 2:1)This is probably a "trivial" point, but Jasher makes it appear that Adam did not have intimate relations with his wife for many years, until the time of Seth's conception. The Bible makes no such comment about how often or when Adam knew his wife prior to that event.
22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am].

22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

22:4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid [it] upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here [am] I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is] the lamb for a burnt offering?

22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.

22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said [to] this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]:

22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

22:19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. (Genesis 22:1-19)
And Satan went to Sarah, and he appeared to her in the figure of an old man very humble and meek, and Abraham was yet engaged in the burnt offering before the Lord.


And he said unto her, Dost thou not know all the work that Abraham has made with thine only son this day? for he took Isaac and built an altar, and killed him, and brought him up as a sacrifice upon the altar, and Isaac cried and wept before his father, but he looked not at him, neither did he have compassion over him.


And Satan repeated these words, and he went away from her, and Sarah heard all the words of Satan, and she imagined him to be an old man from amongst the sons of men who had been with her son, and had come and told her these things.


And Sarah lifted up her voice and wept and cried out bitterly on account of her son; and she threw herself upon the ground and she cast dust upon her head, and she said, O my son, Isaac my son, O that I had this day died instead of thee. And she continued to weep and said, It grieves me for thee, O my son, my son Isaac, O that I had died this day in thy stead.


And she still continued to weep, and said, It grieves me for thee after that I have reared thee and have brought thee up; now my joy is turned into mourning over thee, I that had a longing for thee, and cried and prayed to God till I bare thee at ninety years old; and now hast thou served this day for the knife and the fire, to be made an offering.


But I console myself with thee, my son, in its being the word of the Lord, for thou didst perform the command of thy God; for who can transgress the word of our God, in whose hands is the soul of every living creature?


Thou art just, O Lord our God, for all thy works are good and righteous; for I also am rejoiced with thy word which thou didst command, and whilst mine eye weepeth bitterly my heart rejoiceth.


And Sarah laid her head upon the bosom of one of her handmaids, and she became as still as a stone.


She afterward rose up and went about making inquiries till she came to Hebron, and she inquired of all those whom she met walking in the road, and no one could tell her what had happened to her son.


And she came with her maid servants and men servants to Kireath-arba, which is Hebron, and she asked concerning her Son, and she remained there while she sent some of her servants to seek where Abraham had gone with Isaac; they went to seek him in the house of Shem and Eber, and they could not find him, and they sought throughout the land and he was not there.


And behold, Satan came to Sarah in the shape of an old man, and he came and stood before her, and he said unto her, I spoke falsely unto thee, for Abraham did not kill his son and he is not dead; and when she heard the word her joy was so exceedingly violent on account of her son, that her soul went out through joy; she died and was gathered to her people.


And when Abraham had finished his service he returned with his son Isaac to his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba, and they came home.


And Abraham sought for Sarah, and could not find her, and he made inquiries concerning her, and they said unto him, She went as far as Hebron to seek you both where you had gone, for thus was she informed.


And Abraham and Isaac went to her to Hebron, and when they found that she was dead they lifted up their voices and wept bitterly over her; and Isaac fell upon his mother's face and wept over her, and he said, O my mother, my mother, how hast thou left me, and where hast thou gone? O how, how hast thou left me!


And Abraham and Isaac wept greatly and all their servants wept with them on account of Sarah, and they mourned over her a great and heavy mourning. (Jasher 23:76-90)
This is pure fiction that we are given in Jasher. There is not a shred of truth to this. Nowhere in all of the Bible is such an event as Satan appearing to men or women like this ever given, and that he should be allowed to cause their death in such a fashion! To Christ, Satan appeared as an angel of light--hardly as an old man like this. Certainly, Satan could appear as anything he wishes, and if you read the portion where Abraham and Isaac are going up to Mount Moriah according to the Jasher rendition, Satan does a great many things to hinder their journey, such as placing himself in front of the travelers as a wide and rushing stream to prevent their passage!

We know that Sarah did not die before their return, both from the Bible, which says nothing of such a noteworthy event, and from the writings of Mrs. White.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
... That he might reach the highest standard, God subjected him to another test, the closest which man was ever called to endure. In a vision of the night he was directed to repair to the land of Moriah, and there offer up his son as a burnt offering upon a mountain that should be shown him. {PP 147.2}
At the time of receiving this command, Abraham had reached the age of a hundred and twenty years. He was regarded as an old man, even in his generation. In his earlier years he had been strong to endure hardship and to brave danger, but now the ardor of his youth had passed away. One in the vigor of manhood may with courage meet difficulties and afflictions that would cause his heart to fail later in life, when his feet are faltering toward the grave. But God had reserved His last, most trying test for Abraham until the burden of years was heavy upon him, and he longed for rest from anxiety and toil. {PP 147.3}


Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born, and Abraham was 100. If Abraham was 120 at this time of trial, Isaac was 20, and Sarah was 110. Sarah did not die until she was 127, or full 17 years after the Mount Moriah experience.

I'm certain that Abraham and Isaac did not take 17 years to return from the mountain!

Originally Posted By: The Bible
Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child] be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? (Genesis 17:17)

And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: [these were] the years of the life of Sarah. And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same [is] Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her. (Genesis 23:1-2)
Those were their ages according to the Bible.


These are but a few of the things I find to be not in line with the Bible from the book of Jasher. I may add more later, if that is necessary and I have time.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150263
03/02/13 09:15 AM
03/02/13 09:15 AM
Rick H  Offline

Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,245
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
<table cellpadding="10" cellspacing="1" border="1" bordercolor="#440077" align="center" width="97%"><tr><th colspan="3"><font style="font-size:1.25em" color="#773344">Biblical Standard Compared to Book of Jasher: Trivia or Serious?<br />Part 1</font></th></tr><tr><th width="25%">The Holy Bible (KJV)</th><th width="30%">The Book of Jasher</th><th>Comments</th></tr><tr><td>Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. (Genesis 5:2)</td><td>And God blessed them and called their names Adam and Eve in the day that he created them, and the Lord God said, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. (Jasher 1:6)</td><td>This "slight" difference might seem like added detail in Jasher, except that God did not give Eve her name. Compare Genesis 3:20-- "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."<br />Either God gave Eve her name (per Jasher) or Adam named Eve (per the Bible)</td></tr>
<tr><td>And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. <br /><br />And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. (Genesis 3:17-19, 4:11-12) </td><td>And the Lord God drove them that day from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which they were taken, and they went and dwelt at the east of the garden of Eden; and Adam knew his wife Eve and she bore two sons and three daughters. ... <br /><br />But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.<br /><br />And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death. (Jasher 1:12, 31-32)</td><td>Jasher says Cain was the recipient of the curse of thorns and thistles, but the Bible tells us that Adam's sin brought this curse upon the whole earth. Think about this: if only Cain were thus cursed, what kind of fairness would it be that ALL people must deal with thorns and thistles? </td></tr>
<tr><td>And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5:3)</td><td>And it was in the hundred and thirtieth year of the life of Adam upon the earth, that he again knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bare a son in his likeness and in his image, and she called his name Seth, saying, Because God has appointed me another seed in the place of Abel, for Cain has slain him. (Jasher 2:1)</td><td>This is probably a "trivial" point, but Jasher makes it appear that Adam did not have intimate relations with his wife for many years, until the time of Seth's conception. The Bible makes no such comment about how often or when Adam knew his wife prior to that event.</td></tr>
<tr><td>22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, [here] I [am].
<br /> 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
<br /> 22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
<br /> 22:4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
<br /> 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
<br /> 22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid [it] upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
<br /> 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here [am] I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is] the lamb for a burnt offering?
<br /> 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
<br /> 22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
<br /> 22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
<br /> 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
<br /> 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
<br /> 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
<br /> 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said [to] this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
<br /> 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
<br /> 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]:
<br /> 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
<br /> 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
<br /> 22:19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. (Genesis 22:1-19)</td><td>And Satan went to Sarah, and he appeared to her in the figure of an old man very humble and meek, and Abraham was yet engaged in the burnt offering before the Lord.
<br />
And he said unto her, Dost thou not know all the work that Abraham has made with thine only son this day? for he took Isaac and built an altar, and killed him, and brought him up as a sacrifice upon the altar, and Isaac cried and wept before his father, but he looked not at him, neither did he have compassion over him.
<br />
And Satan repeated these words, and he went away from her, and Sarah heard all the words of Satan, and she imagined him to be an old man from amongst the sons of men who had been with her son, and had come and told her these things.
<br />
And Sarah lifted up her voice and wept and cried out bitterly on account of her son; and she threw herself upon the ground and she cast dust upon her head, and she said, O my son, Isaac my son, O that I had this day died instead of thee. And she continued to weep and said, It grieves me for thee, O my son, my son Isaac, O that I had died this day in thy stead.
<br />
And she still continued to weep, and said, It grieves me for thee after that I have reared thee and have brought thee up; now my joy is turned into mourning over thee, I that had a longing for thee, and cried and prayed to God till I bare thee at ninety years old; and now hast thou served this day for the knife and the fire, to be made an offering.
<br />
But I console myself with thee, my son, in its being the word of the Lord, for thou didst perform the command of thy God; for who can transgress the word of our God, in whose hands is the soul of every living creature?
<br />
Thou art just, O Lord our God, for all thy works are good and righteous; for I also am rejoiced with thy word which thou didst command, and whilst mine eye weepeth bitterly my heart rejoiceth.
<br />
And Sarah laid her head upon the bosom of one of her handmaids, and she became as still as a stone.
<br />
She afterward rose up and went about making inquiries till she came to Hebron, and she inquired of all those whom she met walking in the road, and no one could tell her what had happened to her son.
<br />
And she came with her maid servants and men servants to Kireath-arba, which is Hebron, and she asked concerning her Son, and she remained there while she sent some of her servants to seek where Abraham had gone with Isaac; they went to seek him in the house of Shem and Eber, and they could not find him, and they sought throughout the land and he was not there.
<br />
And behold, Satan came to Sarah in the shape of an old man, and he came and stood before her, and he said unto her, I spoke falsely unto thee, for Abraham did not kill his son and he is not dead; and when she heard the word her joy was so exceedingly violent on account of her son, that her soul went out through joy; she died and was gathered to her people.
<br />
And when Abraham had finished his service he returned with his son Isaac to his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba, and they came home.
<br />
And Abraham sought for Sarah, and could not find her, and he made inquiries concerning her, and they said unto him, She went as far as Hebron to seek you both where you had gone, for thus was she informed.
<br />
And Abraham and Isaac went to her to Hebron, and when they found that she was dead they lifted up their voices and wept bitterly over her; and Isaac fell upon his mother's face and wept over her, and he said, O my mother, my mother, how hast thou left me, and where hast thou gone? O how, how hast thou left me!
<br />
And Abraham and Isaac wept greatly and all their servants wept with them on account of Sarah, and they mourned over her a great and heavy mourning. (Jasher 23:76-90)</td><td> This is pure fiction that we are given in Jasher. There is not a shred of truth to this. Nowhere in all of the Bible is such an event as Satan appearing to men or women like this ever given, and that he should be allowed to cause their death in such a fashion! To Christ, Satan appeared as an angel of light--hardly as an old man like this. Certainly, Satan could appear as anything he wishes, and if you read the portion where Abraham and Isaac are going up to Mount Moriah according to the Jasher rendition, Satan does a great many things to hinder their journey, such as placing himself in front of the travelers as a wide and rushing stream to prevent their passage!<br /><br />We know that Sarah did not die before their return, both from the Bible, which says nothing of such a noteworthy event, and from the writings of Mrs. White.
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
... That he might reach the highest standard, God subjected him to another test, the closest which man was ever called to endure. In a vision of the night he was directed to repair to the land of Moriah, and there offer up his son as a burnt offering upon a mountain that should be shown him. {PP 147.2}
At the time of receiving this command, Abraham had reached the age of a hundred and twenty years. He was regarded as an old man, even in his generation. In his earlier years he had been strong to endure hardship and to brave danger, but now the ardor of his youth had passed away. One in the vigor of manhood may with courage meet difficulties and afflictions that would cause his heart to fail later in life, when his feet are faltering toward the grave. But God had reserved His last, most trying test for Abraham until the burden of years was heavy upon him, and he longed for rest from anxiety and toil. {PP 147.3}


Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born, and Abraham was 100. If Abraham was 120 at this time of trial, Isaac was 20, and Sarah was 110. Sarah did not die until she was 127, or full 17 years after the Mount Moriah experience. <br />
I'm certain that Abraham and Isaac did not take 17 years to return from the mountain!

Originally Posted By: The Bible
Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall [a child] be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? (Genesis 17:17)

And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: [these were] the years of the life of Sarah. And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same [is] Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her. (Genesis 23:1-2)
Those were their ages according to the Bible.</td></tr></table>

These are but a few of the things I find to be not in line with the Bible from the book of Jasher. I may add more later, if that is necessary and I have time.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You notice the focus is turned to Satan in many of the passages...

Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150273
03/02/13 01:17 PM
03/02/13 01:17 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Again, let me be very clear, I never said that the Book of Jasher was inspired and belongs in the Canon. I have said that it is to be taken as a historical account and should be taken like we do with the writings of Josephus who was around after Jesus death. His work is very valuable to many scholars and gives certain details that the Bible doesn't give.

These details are not inspired words, but are said through a man that is trying to maintain objectivity while recording what has happened with the information obtained thru his research at that time. Where the Bible gives details, those needs to be held above any other books. However details that are not specified in the Bible and found in the book of Jasher or Josephus or other historical sources should be considered as additional information that needs to be confirmed by the guidance of the Holy Spirit when we conduct a study or are in quest of an answer. Even reading Scriptures can become unfit spiritual food for consumption if it is not confirmed or led by the Spirit.

Quote:
"Sarah was 90 when Isaac was born, and Abraham was 100. If Abraham was 120 at this time of trial, Isaac was 20, and Sarah was 110. Sarah did not die until she was 127, or full 17 years after the Mount Moriah experience."

The Bible does not say that Abraham was 120 years old when he was tested(tried). So the Book of Jasher is not in contradiction with scripture and it could very well be Ellen that is. I would chose the Book of Jasher over EGW for she wasn't there at the time to conduct such an inquirery, whereas Jasher was at least around the time of the Israelites and his book(work) was recognized in the Bible.

All other objection you brought are nick picking stuff based on your understanding of what is the truth by which needs to be broadened and tested. There's nothing out there you showed that the Book of Jasher contradicts the Bible. If you find anything that is more significant, please bring it forth.

You won't use the same nick picking measure on Ellen White's writings and yet you hold her as an authority and above the Bible for if her interpretation is against scriptures you will ignore those scripures that doesn't support that interpretation or add to it so to say what Ellen said. So in this manner you uphold her writings instead and above scriptures. I have seen you have done this in a few discussions.


Blessings
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Elle] #150278
03/02/13 03:24 PM
03/02/13 03:24 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Elle,

If we can determine that the entire book of Jasher is a fraud, then what respect should we give it? Any at all? If a Mormon wrote the book, or someone else did who lived in modern times, how would that individual be a "historian?" Historians record what they see. I can assure you that this book is a fraud. Even Wikipedia, as Rosangela brought out, calls Jasher a forgery.

Please, Elle, don't turn after fables. It is true that the Bible says in the latter times, many will do just this. Don't let it be you! You are important to God, and He wants to keep you on His side.

If you haven't read chapters 38 and 39 of Jasher, and want to see some real "superman comics," try looking at those. The sons of Jacob are said to swordfight with screams and are able to jump over high city walls, by pure strength.

Here's a few examples:

"And Judah, seeing that the men of Gaash were getting too heavy for them, gave a most piercing and tremendous shriek and all the men of Gaash were terrified at the voice of Judah's cry, and men fell from the wall at his powerful shriek, and all those that were from without and within the city were greatly afraid of their lives." (Jasher 39:19)

"And after this cry he again repeated to shout, and all the men who surrounded Judah on the top of the wall were terrified, and they each threw his sword from his hand at the sound of Judah's shouting and his tremor, and fled." (Jasher 39:33)

"And Judah cried out upon the wall owing to the pain produced by the blow, when Dan heard him, and his anger burned within him, and he also rose up and went at a distance and ran and sprang from the earth and mounted the wall with his wrath-excited strength." (Jasher 39:41)

Superman!!!! To the rescue!!!

"And Naphtali went up with his wrath-excited might and sprang upon the first wall to see what caused the noise of shouting which they had heard in the city, and Issachar and Zebulun drew nigh to break the doors of the city, and they opened the gates of the city and came into the city.

And Naphtali leaped from the first wall to the second, and came to assist his brothers, and the inhabitants of Gaash who were upon the wall, seeing that Naphtali was the third who had come up to assist his brothers, they all fled and descended into the city, and Jacob and all his sons and all their young men came into the city to them." (Jasher 39:47-48)

Those bloody sons of Jacob....killing everyone they meet....

"And the blood flowed plentifully in the city, and it was like a brook of water, and the blood flowed like a brook to the outer part of the city, and reached the desert of Bethchorin." (Jasher 39:51)

Watering the desert with blood.

"And Simeon and Levi ran upon the powerful man with their swords and struck at him forcibly with their swords, and the two swords entered the body of the powerful man and divided it in two, length-wise." (Jasher 39:63)

Blood and guts. Heroism. It's like the movies. What wonderful novel.

Of course, it's totally fictitious. Salacious, I suppose, to some readers who have appetites for violence.

Let it not be us.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Why Isn't The Book of Jasher a Part of the Bible? [Re: Green Cochoa] #150301
03/02/13 11:34 PM
03/02/13 11:34 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Elle,

If we can determine that the entire book of Jasher is a fraud, then what respect should we give it? Any at all? If a Mormon wrote the book, or someone else did who lived in modern times, how would that individual be a "historian?" Historians record what they see. I can assure you that this book is a fraud. Even Wikipedia, as Rosangela brought out, calls Jasher a forgery.

Please, Elle, don't turn after fables. It is true that the Bible says in the latter times, many will do just this. Don't let it be you! You are important to God, and He wants to keep you on His side.

If you haven't read chapters 38 and 39 of Jasher, and want to see some real "superman comics," try looking at those. The sons of Jacob are said to swordfight with screams and are able to jump over high city walls, by pure strength.

Here's a few examples:

"And Judah, seeing that the men of Gaash were getting too heavy for them, gave a most piercing and tremendous shriek and all the men of Gaash were terrified at the voice of Judah's cry, and men fell from the wall at his powerful shriek, and all those that were from without and within the city were greatly afraid of their lives." (Jasher 39:19)

"And after this cry he again repeated to shout, and all the men who surrounded Judah on the top of the wall were terrified, and they each threw his sword from his hand at the sound of Judah's shouting and his tremor, and fled." (Jasher 39:33)

"And Judah cried out upon the wall owing to the pain produced by the blow, when Dan heard him, and his anger burned within him, and he also rose up and went at a distance and ran and sprang from the earth and mounted the wall with his wrath-excited strength." (Jasher 39:41)

Superman!!!! To the rescue!!!

"And Naphtali went up with his wrath-excited might and sprang upon the first wall to see what caused the noise of shouting which they had heard in the city, and Issachar and Zebulun drew nigh to break the doors of the city, and they opened the gates of the city and came into the city.

And Naphtali leaped from the first wall to the second, and came to assist his brothers, and the inhabitants of Gaash who were upon the wall, seeing that Naphtali was the third who had come up to assist his brothers, they all fled and descended into the city, and Jacob and all his sons and all their young men came into the city to them." (Jasher 39:47-48)

Those bloody sons of Jacob....killing everyone they meet....

"And the blood flowed plentifully in the city, and it was like a brook of water, and the blood flowed like a brook to the outer part of the city, and reached the desert of Bethchorin." (Jasher 39:51)

Watering the desert with blood.

"And Simeon and Levi ran upon the powerful man with their swords and struck at him forcibly with their swords, and the two swords entered the body of the powerful man and divided it in two, length-wise." (Jasher 39:63)

Blood and guts. Heroism. It's like the movies. What wonderful novel.

Of course, it's totally fictitious. Salacious, I suppose, to some readers who have appetites for violence.

Let it not be us.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
And you believe that an axe floated on top of the water? And Gideon jacket was dry while all around was soaking wet and vise versa, and Samson had strength like superman and etc...???

GC you believe what you want and if you want to reject that book...do so. Let others inquire of the Spirit to know what to do and to believe.

Your arguments do not hold and are not in contradictions to the Bible and there are many much details that are in harmony with the Bible including all the dating in an very exact manner. But you don't want to look at that, but instead are looking for something you can call errors so to give you the reason to reject the whole book. People do that very successfully with the Bible too.


Blessings
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