God is permitting the destruction of the wicked in the same manner. He is permitting them to have the results of their course, while actively granting them those results Himself.

In what way do you see that different from what Tom is saying? God is responsible for all things. Including giving His creation the power of choice. By letting them reap their results, He is willing to take the blame.

Just like He said He killed Saul.

In Early Writings, Ellen White wrote: "The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, 'If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist.'"

This makes it appear that the "cloud of glorious light" which covered the Father actually masked a more intense light which would destroy her, a sinner, if unveiled. That is the image I have of hell-- God will finally unmask Himself, and literal flames and destruction among the wicked will ensue.

M: God is a physical Being who also happens to glow. His radiance outshines the sun. I’m surprised you’re unwilling to concede this point.

T: God is a spiritual being. "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)" Before there was any matter, God existed. He can manifest Himself as He pleases, for His creatures, who are physical beings.

M: I find it curious you can answer this type of question without volunteering to explain what you do believe. So, here it is – In what way do you think it was different than Raiders of the Lost Ark?

T: I've declined to talk about Nabad and Abihu many times, as we covered the subject in detail, so I don't see why you would find this to be surprising.

M: Tom, yes, it is very cool that the SOP uses the words "poison" and "antidote" in relation to the sin problem.

T: Glad to hear that. Thinking of the sin problem in these terms I think helps very much to understand the atonement, the judgment, the Great Controversy, and what God is attempting to do.

M: Yes, it does.

T: It would be interesting to see this fleshed out.

M: Like GC, I was surprised at your reaction to his question regarding the fire that destroyed the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. Are you saying you believe fire really, literally came down from God out of heaven?

T: This isn't what he said. He said, "I truly am surprised you think the fire in Sodom was real fire." Why would you think I wouldn't have thought that real fire was involved?

M: I mean real fire from God out of heaven. Is that what you believe? Or, do you believe the fire originated somewhere else?

T: GC said nothing about this. I've already said what I think about Sodom and Gomorrah.

M: Yes. But my question is – Do you believe God withdrew His protection and permitted oil or coal or something naturally occurring in the area to burst into flames and kill them relatively painlessly?

T: We've discussed this in the past.

Then Revelation says there will be no need for the sun.

And then there's 2 Corinthians 4:6:
"For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness,"

So, it does sound like He is light (glowing, I don't know about).

However, reading the rest of the verse:
"who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Doesn't sound like light in the normal sense. What do you think?

GC, your comments about worms symbolizing Jesus are, well, weird. I've never thought of it before. In what way are flesh consuming worms eternal?

Saul is not the same scenario we are currently discussing. We've moved past Saul. His death was not the second death. Our discussion has moved to the point where all of us recognize (I think) that the second death, aka hell, is not an issue of keeping God's people pure, nor does it have to do with setting up leaders or taking them down, nor is it discipline.

Hell is punishment. It is God's justice. It is retribution and vengeance, each of the wicked to receive according to the sinful deeds done in the body.

When God deals out the rewards, He is the Judge to ensure that each has received his or her fair portion.

Of course God allows that which He does.

If I am driving down the road, and a friend or family member feels I do not know the way, and thinks to know the way better than I do, I may choose to allow them to test their own judgment, by turning the way they desire to go. I am permitting them to see the results of their course. I am, however, the one at the controls.

God is permitting the destruction of the wicked in the same manner. He is permitting them to have the results of their course, while actively granting them those results Himself.

Saul is not the same scenario we are currently discussing. We've moved past Saul. His death was not the second death. Our discussion has moved to the point where all of us recognize (I think) that the second death, aka hell, is not an issue of keeping God's people pure, nor does it have to do with setting up leaders or taking them down, nor is it discipline.

Hell is punishment. It is God's justice. It is retribution and vengeance, each of the wicked to receive according to the sinful deeds done in the body.

When God deals out the rewards, He is the Judge to ensure that each has received his or her fair portion.

Sinners may not like their reward. They may wish they had taken a different course. But alas, it is too late then to change. They have made their choice, and can no longer retreat. God gives them that which they may not wish to receive, but that which they have earned, by their own past choices.

Tom and I may differ on this point, but I do not believe many of the wicked will desire death. They will wish with all their hearts for the life which God will then deprive them of--forever. It is an awful fate, and well worth every effort, unto blood, to avert it.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.