GC,

I'm not sure that's what Gordon was saying. Interesting you brought that up. Which makes me think there is something else going on here.

What does Ellen White have to say on the topic? Is eating meat "healthy"? Why be healthy? Is there something in the Bible about our bodies being the temple of God? God doesn't want healthy sinners, but those who are saved will strive to keep their temples in as a holy condition as possible.

If eating meat is the goal, then nothing else will matter and what anyone says will be a waste.


A recurring theme I'm trying to get you to see is that you can't go off concluding random things before you even gather the knowledge. Even from your own statements, one could not come to the conclusion that chenopods do not thrive in a moist environment. How much knowledge do you have of plants? My observations reveal any genus with several hundred species most likely have species living in a wide variety of environments. An abrupt disqualifying statement that none grow in certain environments is out of line besides not even dealing with the possibility of other plants inside the family or outside of it.

I am glad you have searched some about them, but a quick search shows the top of the list with the following statement:

And another entry has:

So, unless I'm mistaken, chenopods do grow in Taiwan, and they do grow in at least upper salt-marshes, which I would make a wild conjecture to be, "moist".

Like I say, it is my opinion that something else is going on Taiwan than an honest discovery for a non-meat source of nutrition.

Gordon had good questions. You answered some. And you answered mine about where do animals get it. Seems reasonable. But what about Gordon's question and relate it to nuts? What about oats? Or the others mentioned which you say are available? I don't know much about G6PD deficiency, but I read some have symptoms and others don't. Which causes me to consider no matter the genetics, health can be changed and affected through diet. Eating meat will only compound problems. People with type I diabetes have gone off their medicine that they had no hope giving up - according to doctors. Have you heard of epigenetics? Might want to broaden your knowledge and search for that when you aren't looking through the 8,000+ search entries for, chenopod Taiwan.

Broad minds will find answers. They will consider that if one plant has a nutrient, others may too. That if God intended for us to eat plants, He would provide a wide variety of plants growing in a wide variety of locations to enable us to get our nutrition. What I heard Gordon as saying is that plants grow most everywhere and where one doesn't grow, another takes it's place -- you are not left without. Broad minds will consider that if 100 years ago, "now" is the time to give up meat, she didn't mean "soon" at some distant unknown time. True, those with genetic deficiencies may have to put forth a little more effort. Those who live in the Arctic circle may not be able to find plants. I heard they only lived to their 30's, too. But for the rest of us with supermarkets, transportation, food growing locally, I have a hard time finding any excuse....excepting for desire.

So Green, here's a missionary project for you.

Kland's advice seems most pertinent - find a local source, I'm sure it exists. Ask God to guide you. Since favism is prevalent in your corner of the globe, this could be your Taichung Nobel.

Or, since Lambsquarters are ubiquitous over here, especially prolific on *moist* dungpiles, arrange for seeds to be sent your way and start a trial. As you know they 'grow like weeds' but with contained root systems.

But have you yet determined a lysine deficiency?

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kland,

The book I linked in my earlier post (did you look at that?) is where I was getting my information. It was focused on the food-source chenopods, as you will readily admit not all chenopods are fit for food.

No, I am not wanting anyone to eat meat. Need I repeat this in every post to squelch your suspicions to the contrary? What I do recognize, is that there are times when meat is best given extenuating circumstances. Just such circumstances are faced here, and it is quite a puzzle to try to circumnavigate them.

I think, however, I may have found a solution--import Lysine supplements from overseas. The supplements, being in concentrated form, could be affordably imported.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Gordon,

You obviously have not traveled much, or if so, not recently. It is against the law in most every country these days to import plants, seeds, or cuttings of non-native plants. In Taiwan, it can land as much as seven years in jail, not to mention a tremendous fine.

If Lamb's Quarters are not in Taiwan, there's nothing I will be doing to bring them in.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

With Quinoa the seed head is eaten. Lambsquarters it is the leaf that is usually eaten, though the seed head most likely is edible, I wouldn't assume that the nutitional value is the same as the Quinoa seed! Lambsquarter also contains some oxalic acid.



Spirulina, and Brewer's yeast are supplements that have a good amount of lysine!


Some Foods High in Lysine

Fruits - apricots, apples, pears

Nuts, grains and vegetables - wheat germ, corn, winter squash, peas, pumpkin seeds, pistachios, peanuts, almonds, sesame seeds, Brazil nuts

Crater, the lambsquarter tops, comprising seedhead & leaf, are a favourite staple and quick to pick - the young plants are nicest, the stalks tender. Harvest lunch in 30 seconds. Cram into sandwich or chop into salad. Lemon, salt, tomato, hummus.

The oxalic acid question remains - few definitive statements, but ever the onerous caution. Where's the science? Many of these greens are high in both calcium & oxalic acid - did God make a mistake - we think not. I scarf these down in season, no gout as yet, no scalpels. Just increased strength & stamina. (Was Popeye right?) However, they're raw, not cooked, and this could change everything. Certainly the Standard American Diet renders one 'uric acid compromised' - but are deep greens any threat to a balanced vegan diet?

Since your article raised rhubarb too - what are the numbers here? I was unaware oxalic acid was the 'poisonous' component - only assumed there must be a 'real' poison. Maybe these are also edible? Another topic for Green & Mike ... Would Jesus eat rhubarb cooked or raw?
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Crater,

The foods you listed as being high in lysine are not so high in lysine. The website is specifically targeting foods that have a high ratio of lysine versus arginine, since arginine is contraindicated in the case of herpes virus.

What we need here is numbers. If, for example, Brewer's yeast is high in lysine, how much daily intake of Brewer's yeast would one require in order to have sufficient lysine?

It goes without saying that a shake or two will not provide enough. But yeast flakes are often used merely as flavoring. How much would one actually need if that were their only source of lysine?

I need science and numbers. Few of the websites suggested here have shown actual numbers. Gordon asks for evidence of a deficiency. I might ask in return if there is a clinical test that would show this? If the body breaks down muscle to get the lysine out, wouldn't the blood levels of lysine remain stable? In any case, I'm needing some real information. If I observe a slightly distended belly, reminiscent of starving children in Africa, could this be on account of inadequate nutrition?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green, did you try Jeff Novick? He's online at a free forum. I'm sure he has an office number too.

Any Western teaching hospital could direct you to a government biochemistry institute. There may be investigators who have studied nothing but lysine for years. There are experts in every field and perhaps some in your back yard. Much of the world's medical research is reported in English because publishing is the lifeline to grants, and we hold the gold. University and government. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Some Journals are freely archived online. Search for relevant articles, contact one of the authors - their affiliation is usually indicated. It will not take long to identify the top 5 lysine researchers in the western world. They'll know all about testing protocols. Or contact a Journal office directly.

But since you're seeking a food source, agricultural/food science Journals or institutes may be your next step. Taiwan must have a Dept. of Agriculture, agronomists, biochemists, a National Institute of Health. Even Google is a good start.

As kland mentionned, there's probably a very local (plant-based) solution.
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Gordon,

I really do appreciate your attempts at helpfulness here. Please pardon my exasperation at times here on account of the dearth of good options and information. It has been very difficult to find any information online. There are even many conflicting pieces of information. One list will show that one food is high in such and such nutrient, while another list will contradict that.

My gut says few people are studying these things as they are not deemed worthy from a financial perspective. Drug makers don't make anything on natural products. Can't patent an amino acid.

We live in an imperfect world where we cannot always get all of the nutrition we need. Until we get to Heaven, we won't have the fruit of the Tree of Life. Meanwhile we must strive to live as healthfully as possible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Hi Green,

Pls. excuse the worldly suggestions. My first choice is to seek God's wisdom - the bandwidth is so much better. (May need to clean your receptor genes). It seems this was kland's advice as well, and I second the motion. As you know, man's extremity is God's opportunity - maybe where you're at right now. He will show you the direct path to lysine - it could be through a scientist or bushman, but God will sort it out if you let him. He'll not let you down. The manna was complete.

Not to raise your hackles, but 1) everything is being studied - if you have poured over thousands of biomedical journals, you'll know this, even though there's no apparent profit. 2) There's substantial money in extracts, even if they're 'natural source', amino acids or unpatented. Just the lab supply business to run experiments is worth billions. Tons of super sterile material courriered around the world every day. Lab Research, Education, Clinical Trials, endless. Thousands of University Centres, Government Agencies, and the Pharma business themselves with their own research teams. Everything is being patented as found in recent legislation, Codex Alimentarius or the financial pages. Big Pharma & Agra are drooling as they buy up lawmakers - chasing profits while the sky is about to split.

It seems you're dogging hard for a solution, when the problem comes from a textbook, thus theoretical at the moment. Your concern is justified, but God is still alive, Jesus still at His right hand. I'm unconcerned if someone chooses meat unless they wish to avoid it. Then they should gather up all the clues presented and exercise due diligence. No point in murmuring about possible answers if untried. The more I murmur, the closer and simpler the solution. The Inverse Whine Law.
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