I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. I haven't thought along the lines you are suggesting, nor do I see the need to.

Is there something wrong with him liking this quote?
Does it apply towards the judgment?

Do you believe Jesus died of heart failure due to a broken heart? If so, do you believe the wicked will die of the same thing?

1. Tom, do you think Jesus' humanity prevented His character from causing sinners to be consumed to death? If so, please explain how and why.

2. If, as you say, God would not have to be physically present for His character to cause sinners to suffer and die during the final judgment, do you think Jesus' character was sufficient to cause sinners to suffer and die without Him having to be physically present?

3. How and why does the character of God cause sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness?

4. Is it necessary for the wicked to comprehend the character of God in order to suffer and die?

Tom, your quote from GC 543 is saying what WOULD happen if they were allowed into heaven in their sinful condition.

the glory of God WOULD be a consuming fire. They WOULD long to flee from that holy place. {GC 543}

Down at the bottom of page 543, it tells what will actually happen: It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace. {GC 543}

If you look at the two quotes you used in their context you will see that they are not dealing with the destruction of the wicked at the end of time. There are some that do though. here are a couple of them. They coincide with what the Bible says on this subject.

The principles of kindness, mercy, and love, taught and exemplified by our Saviour, are a transcript of the will and character of God. Christ declared that He taught nothing except that which He had received from His Father. The principles of the divine government are in perfect harmony with the Saviour's precept, "Love your enemies." God
542
executes justice upon the wicked, for the good of the universe, and even for the good of those upon whom His judgments are visited. He would make them happy if He could do so in accordance with the laws of His government and the justice of His character. He surrounds them with the tokens of His love, He grants them a knowledge of His law, and follows them with the offers of His mercy; but they despise His love, make void His law, and reject His mercy. While constantly receiving His gifts, they dishonor the Giver; they hate God because they know that He abhors their sins. The Lord bears long with their perversity; but the decisive hour will come at last, when their destiny is to be decided. Will He then chain these rebels to His side? Will He force them to do His will? {GC 541.4}

Those who have chosen Satan as their leader and have been controlled by his power are not prepared to enter the presence of God. Pride, deception, licentiousness, cruelty, have become fixed in their characters. Can they enter heaven to dwell forever with those whom they despised and hated on earth? Truth will never be agreeable to a liar; meekness will not satisfy self-esteem and pride; purity is not acceptable to the corrupt; disinterested love does not appear attractive to the selfish. What source of enjoyment could heaven offer to those who are wholly absorbed in earthly and selfish interests? {GC 542.1}

Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to heaven and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there,-- every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor of God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sitteth upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation
543
were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God. {GC 542.2}

Like the waters of the Flood the fires of the great day declare God's verdict that the wicked are incurable. They have no disposition to submit to divine authority. Their will has been exercised in revolt; and when life is ended, it is too late to turn the current of their thoughts in the opposite direction, too late to turn from transgression to obedience, from hatred to love. {GC 543.1}

In sparing the life of Cain the murderer, God gave the world an example of what would be the result of permitting the sinner to live to continue a course of unbridled iniquity. Through the influence of Cain's teaching and example, multitudes of his descendants were led into sin, until "the wickedness of man was great in the earth" and "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." "The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence." Genesis 6:5, 11. {GC 543.2}

In mercy to the world, God blotted out its wicked inhabitants in Noah's time. In mercy He destroyed the corrupt dwellers in Sodom. Through the deceptive power of Satan the workers of iniquity obtain sympathy and admiration, and are thus constantly leading others to rebellion. It was so in Cain's and in Noah's day, and in the time of Abraham and Lot; it is so in our time. It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace.{GC 543.3}

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. While life is the inheritance of the righteous, death is the portion of the wicked. Moses declared to Israel: "I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil." Deuteronomy 30:15. The death referred to in these scriptures is not that pronounced upon Adam, for all mankind suffer the penalty of his transgression. It is "the second death" that is placed in contrast with everlasting life. {GC 544.1}

M: Do you believe Jesus died of heart failure due to a broken heart? If so, do you believe the wicked will die of the same thing?

T: You've asked this many times, and I've answered it many times. Don't you remember what was said? Welcome back, by the way.

1. Tom, do you think Jesus' humanity prevented His character from causing sinners to be consumed to death? If so, please explain how and why.

T: You asked this too, and I answered it.

2. If, as you say, God would not have to be physically present for His character to cause sinners to suffer and die during the final judgment, do you think Jesus' character was sufficient to cause sinners to suffer and die without Him having to be physically present?

T: You should quote what I said. What you're saying I said is not what I actually said. Your whole question it based on false assumptions from beginning to end. I'll quote from Ty Gibson to explain what I believe.

3. How and why does the character of God cause sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness?

T: I'll quote from Ty.

4. Is it necessary for the wicked to comprehend the character of God in order to suffer and die?

T: You've asked this before too, many times, and each time I've explained that this is not necessary. Your question is assuming a false premise.

To sin, wherever found, "our God is a consuming fire." Heb. 12:29. In all who submit to His power the Spirit of God will consume sin. But if men cling to sin, they become identified with it. Then the glory of God, which destroys sin, must destroy them. . . . But wherever men came before God while willfully cherishing evil, they were destroyed. At the second advent of Christ the wicked shall be consumed "with the Spirit of His mouth," and destroyed "with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thess. 2:8. The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked. {DA 107.4}

Thank you. It's good to be back. Yes, I recall you saying some people believe Jesus died of heart failure due to a broken heart. However, you have yet to say if you're one of them. Are you? And, do you believe the wicked will the die of the same cause?

Satan with his fierce temptations wrung the heart of Jesus. The Saviour could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the grave a conqueror, or tell Him of the Father's acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that Their separation was to be eternal. Christ felt the anguish which the sinner will feel when mercy shall no longer plead for the guilty race. It was the sense of sin, bringing the Father's wrath upon Him as man's substitute, that made the cup He drank so bitter, and broke the heart of the Son of God. {DA 753.2}

1. Tom, do you think Jesus' humanity prevented His character from causing sinners to be consumed to death? If so, please explain how and why.

T: You asked this too, and I answered it.

You mentioned that at times divinity flashed through humanity. However, you have yet to address the question above.

2. If, as you say, God would not have to be physically present for His character to cause sinners to suffer and die during the final judgment, do you think Jesus' character was sufficient to cause sinners to suffer and die without Him having to be physically present?

T: You should quote what I said. What you're saying I said is not what I actually said. Your whole question it based on false assumptions from beginning to end. I'll quote from Ty Gibson to explain what I believe.

You said God wouldn't have to be physically present because the issue is spiritual not physical.

Let's look it at from a practical view point. Jesus raises the wicked. They resume with the same thoughts and feelings they had before they died. Are you saying this is a spiritual state? And, do you think they are capable of comprehending the character of God and suffering and dying according to their sinfulness without Jesus doing anything else? That is, do you think Jesus need only resurrect them and everything else will play out naturally without Jesus doing anything else?

3. How and why does the character of God cause sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness?

T: I'll quote from Ty.

Quoting from Ty hasn't been helpful in the past.

4. Is it necessary for the wicked to comprehend the character of God in order to suffer and die?

T: You've asked this before too, many times, and each time I've explained that this is not necessary. Your question is assuming a false premise.

M:If comprehending the character of God is unnecessary to suffer and die, why, then, will they suffer and die?

What role, if any, will the character of God play in the suffering and death of the wicked?

In what sense is God a consuming fire?

In what sense will He destroy them?

Please consider the following insights when answering these questions:

"Then shall they that obey not the gospel be consumed with the spirit of His mouth, and be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. Like Israel of old, the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire." The Great Controversy, 37.
That this statement is a direct explanation of the verse under study is clear from the fact that firstly the text is quoted, and then comment is made upon it. Therein, it is affirmed that the wicked destroy themselves. It is not the work of God but their own. They have sown the seed and they must reap the harvest.

Most significant, is the parallel drawn between the way in which Israel perished and the destruction in the last days. As the one perished, so will the other. This is to indicate that the Israelites were likewise destroyed with the brightness of His coming. This is true, for that is exactly how they did come to their end. It may be immediately objected that Jesus did not come with outshining glory at His first advent. Furthermore, He was far away in the distant heavens when the Jews met their fate, so there is no visible evidence of their having been consumed with the brightness of His glory. Such an interpretation depends on the understanding of what the brightness of His glory is and how humans are consumed by it. Defining that expression is the key to solving the problem.
The factor which above all others brought the Jews to their untimely end, was the manifestation of the brightness of God's character-glory in Christ. Before Christ came, the Jews were in a serious state of apostasy, but, even so, were not totally separated from God, for they had not taken the final steps in rebellion. But, as the light of Christ's glorious character shone on them, they were driven to desperate lengths of resistance until they were pushed to the extremes of apostasy. God did not intend that such be the result of this revelation, but once they determined on rejection of Him, it became the only possible outworking of that decision. They were destroyed, and it was by the brightness of His coming.

The sequence then was as follows:
The Jews were in a state of apostasy.

Christ shone on them the brightness of His coming, the glory of His character.

The actual destruction was accomplished by the unleashed natural forces.

In the sacred writings, both of these forces are described.

There we can read of Christ's coming, of the Jews' reaction, and of the separation of the Spirit of God from them.

Then we can read of the destructive work accomplished by the outrage of human passion no longer under divine restraint.

In exactly the same way, there is recorded the identical procedure which leads to the destruction of the wicked in the final overthrow of mankind.

They will be in a state of deep apostasy.

The brightness of His coming will be revealed to them in the loud cry.

Their rejection of this influence will drive them to separate themselves from God's protection.

The actual destruction to befall them will be accomplished by the unleashing of the wild passions within them and by the unrestrained forces of nature.

Basically then, it is the brightness of His coming which destroys them but not in the sense that they are struck down by it. That is left to the unrestrained forces in man and nature, the destruction from which the brightness of His coming would have saved them if they had related to it correctly.

M: Yes, I recall you saying some people believe Jesus died of heart failure due to a broken heart. However, you have yet to say if you're one of them. Are you? And, do you believe the wicked will the die of the same cause?

T: I said it seems clear to me that this is saying that Jesus Christ died because His heart was broken. I added that some people see this from Scripture as well. Remember that Christ almost died in Gethsemane, and would have died had not the angel God sent strengthened Him.

1. Tom, do you think Jesus' humanity prevented His character from causing sinners to be consumed to death? If so, please explain how and why.

T: You asked this too, and I answered it.

M: You mentioned that at times divinity flashed through humanity. However, you have yet to address the question above.

T: No, I answered this. Ty addressed this in his post. I pointed this out to you. Do you want me to repost it?

2. If, as you say, God would not have to be physically present for His character to cause sinners to suffer and die during the final judgment, do you think Jesus' character was sufficient to cause sinners to suffer and die without Him having to be physically present?

T: You should quote what I said. What you're saying I said is not what I actually said. Your whole question it based on false assumptions from beginning to end. I'll quote from Ty Gibson to explain what I believe.

M: You said God wouldn't have to be physically present because the issue is spiritual not physical.

T: This is part of what I said. I was dealing with the fact that the revelation of God is a spiritual thing, which happens in the mind, and that if this were not the case then those who could not see, such as the blind, would not be impacted. But all will "see" Christ, and will see the revelation which occurs in the judgment. It's a phenomena which occurs in the mind. This was my main point.

I made the incidental point that God would be able to do this from heaven, as God is able to reveal Himself to us now, and does so, even though He is in heaven. So God's physical presence is not necessary in order for Him to reveal Himself. This was an incidental point, and not the main point, but an illustration of that point. You keep coming back to this, without mentioning the point. That's what gives the impression I'm saying something I'm not saying. I hope this is clear.

M: Let's look it at from a practical view point. Jesus raises the wicked. They resume with the same thoughts and feelings they had before they died. Are you saying this is a spiritual state? And, do you think they are capable of comprehending the character of God and suffering and dying according to their sinfulness without Jesus doing anything else? That is, do you think Jesus need only resurrect them and everything else will play out naturally without Jesus doing anything else?

T: I think what happens happens in the mind, as a revelation of God. In the vision of Ellen White's, she speaks of how the scenes of Christ appear, and how the law appears in fiery letters, and the lost become aware of every sin they have committed. I don't believe this is literally true, for a number of reasons, but believe the symbols bring out truths, which I'll explain.

First of all, why isn't it literally true? For one thing, if the law were written in fiery letters, what language would it be written in? The only language that makes sense is Hebrew, but few people understand Hebrew, so this would be meaningless for the vast majority.

One could respond that God would miraculously make the letters appear to be whatever language the person understands, but some people can't read at all, and if God is going to make the letters be interpreted in the language one can understand, then God is communicating directly with the mind of each individual, which is what I believe is actually happening. I believe the presentation of the truths outlined is individualized for each person there.

For example, consider the scenes of the life of Christ. Most people don't even know who Christ was, let alone the meaning of the scenes of His life. They would have to be given some sort of context to understand these things. Some education would have to be involved. This involves communication with the mind again, in an individual fashion.

Finally consider the fact that a person is made aware of all of their sins. If this is done all at once, it's not a meaningful experience. However, if one's life is considered moment by moment, it's meaningful, and the idea of proportional suffering makes sense.

We're told that each one will be present at the throne of Christ, and that each one individually will need to make an accounting of their decisions in life. This again points to individualized communication in the judgment, between God and each individual lost person.

I think God will go through the lives of each one, point by point, showing where He was present by means of the Holy Spirit, showing the significance of the decisions made by each one, the rejection of Christ, the impact on the lives of others, each important event in the person's life in its true bearing. This will cause suffering, and it will be proportional to the sin committed and the light rejected.

3. How and why does the character of God cause sinners to suffer and die according to their sinfulness?

T: I'll quote from Ty.

T: Quoting from Ty hasn't been helpful in the past.

T: I think if you read what he wrote carefully, and considered it, it would be helpful.

4. Is it necessary for the wicked to comprehend the character of God in order to suffer and die?

T: You've asked this before too, many times, and each time I've explained that this is not necessary. Your question is assuming a false premise.

M: If comprehending the character of God is unnecessary to suffer and die, why, then, will they suffer and die?

T: You're not understanding the difference between necessity and sufficiency. You're confusing the too. What the wicked go through is sufficient to cause them suffering, but not necessary, as they could suffer in other ways.

M: What role, if any, will the character of God play in the suffering and death of the wicked? In what sense is God a consuming fire? In what sense will He destroy them?

T: As DA 764 explains. Also Ty's quote. "Then shall they that obey not the gospel be consumed with the spirit of His mouth, and be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. Like Israel of old, the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire." The Great Controversy, 37.

“That this statement is a direct explanation of the verse under study is clear from the fact that firstly the text is quoted, and then comment is made upon it. Therein, it is affirmed that the wicked destroy themselves. It is not the work of God but their own. They have sown the seed and they must reap the harvest.

“Most significant, is the parallel drawn between the way in which Israel perished and the destruction in the last days. As the one perished, so will the other. This is to indicate that the Israelites were likewise destroyed with the brightness of His coming. This is true, for that is exactly how they did come to their end. It may be immediately objected that Jesus did not come with outshining glory at His first advent. Furthermore, He was far away in the distant heavens when the Jews met their fate, so there is no visible evidence of their having been consumed with the brightness of His glory. Such an interpretation depends on the understanding of what the brightness of His glory is and how humans are consumed by it. Defining that expression is the key to solving the problem.

“The factor which above all others brought the Jews to their untimely end, was the manifestation of the brightness of God's character-glory in Christ. Before Christ came, the Jews were in a serious state of apostasy, but, even so, were not totally separated from God, for they had not taken the final steps in rebellion. But, as the light of Christ's glorious character shone on them, they were driven to desperate lengths of resistance until they were pushed to the extremes of apostasy. God did not intend that such be the result of this revelation, but once they determined on rejection of Him, it became the only possible outworking of that decision. They were destroyed, and it was by the brightness of His coming.

The sequence then was as follows:
The Jews were in a state of apostasy.

Christ shone on them the brightness of His coming, the glory of His character.

The actual destruction was accomplished by the unleashed natural forces.

In the sacred writings, both of these forces are described.

There we can read of Christ's coming, of the Jews' reaction, and of the separation of the Spirit of God from them.

Then we can read of the destructive work accomplished by the outrage of human passion no longer under divine restraint.

In exactly the same way, there is recorded the identical procedure which leads to the destruction of the wicked in the final overthrow of mankind.

They will be in a state of deep apostasy.

The brightness of His coming will be revealed to them in the loud cry.

Their rejection of this influence will drive them to separate themselves from God's protection.

The actual destruction to befall them will be accomplished by the unleashing of the wild passions within them and by the unrestrained forces of nature.

Basically then, it is the brightness of His coming which destroys them but not in the sense that they are struck down by it. That is left to the unrestrained forces in man and nature, the destruction from which the brightness of His coming would have saved them if they had related to it correctly.