Dump away, but one bit at a time.

Getting back to the ripping away of the universe.

Just how much of the universe are you referring to?

Are you referring to the ripping away of all that God created and Him starting creation all over again, or only a section of all that God created that became contaminated as a result of sin?

My reference is limited to what encompasses the "visible universe" and nothing beyond our light horizion. If I've discerned scripture and SOP correctly, the throne of God and the twenty four thrones encircling the throne of God are each individual universes separate from our own. I have nothing to prove that there actualy infinite other "universes" but it's my conjecture that there is. Talking to others who believe in FF model, some believe that the universe of Heaven will also be recreated. On this point I am unsure.

Give me time to work through it, it's alot of stuff to sort through. I'll only be able to present text on a forum unfortunately. Looking through this stuff, a vast majority of my work is shorthand and mathmatical computation so that'll take some extra time to sort out as well. Good luck making sense out of some of the math though. Alot of it is in new mathmatical branches of my own design. I spose I could convert most of it to a weaker form of Clifford Algebra. I'm starting to babel. Sorry about that.

It is my understanding that only this world was contaminated by sin and is consequently under some sort of a quarantine.

I also understand there are numerous worlds inhabited by intelligent beings who had never sinned, therefore, never came under the curse as our fallen world did, therefore, why would these worlds, etc. need to be re-created?

Exactly right. Our world is under quarantine and there are innumerable inhabited worlds which have never fallen and therefore have no need in being recreated. The question remains, do any of these unfallen worlds exist within our visible universe where comets and asteroids impact planets, stars explode, and galaxies collide? Also, why does the book of Hebrews state that the heavens will perish and that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified?

I've often heard it stated that there are four kinds of heaven in scripture. The atmosphere, our galaxy, the visible universe, and where God's throne resides. If God's throne exists within the visible universe then we have a serious problem.



With a correct understanding of the universe one realizes that there is no such thing as a single centerpoint within the visible cosmos. There is only one possiblity, our visible universe orbits a point outside of the light horizion. Physicly, this would require a universe sized object with considerably greater mass than our own. Ellen White commonly refers to Heaven as a universe. If God's throne must exist beyond the visible universe then the possiblity of inhabited worlds existing outside what can be seen can not be denied.

These are interesting questions. Certainly one would expect the unfallen worlds exist within our visible universe. Why not? Given this is the case, would have have had an impact on their worlds?

Regarding heaven, I've always assumed it's within the visible universe. I don't see why this would be a problem.

The problem is on two points made by Ellen White.

#1. All creation circles God's throne.

#2. Ellen White refers to Heaven as a Universe.

Without ignoring physics, it is wrong even to suggest that there is a single center point around which all things in the visible universe encircle within the envelope of the light horizon. The other problem is that of having a universe contained within another. I guess you could have an opening in one universe that gains passage to another but that still points to an external universe. The possibility exists that my idea is entirely wrong but at the expense of a mass of statements in scripture and SOP that evidence strong support for it. It is also at the cost of accepting bitter pills issued from Big Bang theorists and Evolutionists. My theory explains the cause of Gentry's halos and the very real data recovered from the weak nuclear decay rate of things like carbon 14 within the context of a universe created little over 6000 years ago. It also explains how quantum physics and General Relativity work together. This theory doesn't require scifi explanations like light in transit to solve the distant starlight problem. FF makes a huge multitude of scientific predictions that are later discovered to be evident facts such as the Pioneer anomoly, time retardation in distant supernova explosions, and harmonic tuning of the light horizon between any two points 60% separated. On top of all of that it predicts wonderfull spiritual insights like that all of the light from stars reached Earth over the duration of the very first Sabbath. If you give up on the idea that all of the unfallen worlds exist beyond our visible universe, (safely sheilded from any destructive effects of sin) your forced to throw away everything else too. To me, this model makes better sense than any other, perhaps do to personal bias (I hope not).

What quotes did you have in mind?

Would you separate your writing into paragraphs please? It's very difficult to read. I don't understand why heaven being in the visible universe would be a big problem. You're saying it's because of points 1 and 2 that you raised by Ellen White?

Please forgive my lack of paragraph structure.

Here is an incomplete list of some of the quotes, I'm not typing them out. There's too many.

CTr 290.6, SpTAo1b 38.3, TDG 14.4, 6BC 1088.4, 1888 1661.1, CTr 334.3, TA 198.2, 18MR 14.4, 2SAT 65.4, 2MR 16.3, 16MR2 200.2, Mar 173.3, 7ABC 460.1, SSW April 1 1895 par.4, PH 150 12.1, PC 410.1, LHU 232.3, 12 MR 412.1, PH 149 18.3, 8MR 244.2, Y1 October 17 1895 par 2, FLB 37.3, CG 519.1, 7ABC 470.1, 2SAT 84.2, EV 127.5, BLJ 326.2, AUCR June 1 1900 par. 15, GC 677-678, EW p. 15-16 41 259 277 285-288, Gen 1:1-31, 2:1-3, Ex 20:11, Ps 33:9 148:1-6, Job 22:14, Ez 1 10, Joel 2:10, 2:30, Matt 24:29-30, Luke 12:2, John 1:1-5, Hebrews 1:10-12, 9:23-24, 11:3, 2Pe 3, Rev 6:12-17, 20:11, 21:1

There are other verses and quotes, I never thought of compiling them together before.



Hmm... The universe of Heaven is, well, a UNIVERSE! Universes have light horizons. Our universe is encapsuled with a light horizon. Everything created encircles the throne of God in the heavenly universe. Our universe does not have a unique center point. If Heaven exists outside of the light horizon, our universe could very well be encircling God's throne. Please, please consider Job 22:14. "Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven."

I have in fact calculated this stuff but I felt wary of revealing it. Our star Sol rotates on it's axis once every 25 days and has a mass of 333,000 Earth masses. Earth is 93 million miles (8.3 light minutes) or 1 AU away from the sun. Earth rotates on it's axis once a day and has a mass of 6 x 10^24 kg and orbits the sun every 365.25 days. In a relative sense, the Earth also orbits the light horizion every 24 hours. Earth is 14x10^10 light years from the light horizon. The total mass of our universe is calculated to be 8.7 x 10^49 solar masses.

Based on information in scripture and SOP on the Sabbath and physical predictions from the FF model, our universe orbits Heaven once every 14 days. This is because there are two rest cycles per rotation of a compound pendulum. Descerning 2 Peter 3:8, the Universe of Heaven rotates on it's own axis once every thousand years. This being the case, it would take our universe 14,000 years to rotate one time.

Utilising all of this information, I've calculated a distance between the light horizon and the universe of Heaven to be 2.23 light days. (An interesting byproduct of this is that our universe is moving at the speed of light relative to it's orbit of Heaven.) Heaven's mass came out to 3.9 x 10^10 solar masses.

This information is highly speculative and delves into sciences presently unknown so I wouldn't take any of it too seriously.

Bottom line, our conflicting views do not effect our salvation. If the stars in the heavens do disapear, do not lose your faith in God. He will still protect us.