Colin, do you think the following insight reflects what you're saying:

But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins, or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {1SM 366.1}

PS - What do you think about "continual obedience"?

All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with God, sin will become hateful to us. As Christ lived the law in humanity, so we may do if we will take hold of the Strong for strength. {DA 668}

PPS - There are people who actually believe all such obedience is tainted with sin and corruption.

2nd Q: not so, since Christ's imputed and imparted righteousness is, in us, also perfectly righteous. The Christlike character of the saints is devoid of sin and corruption, as the mind of Christ imputed to us - hence "in us" - is equally righteous in fact: we experience justification.

1st Q: "continual" means "without end" but not "without interruption". Analogous to a dotted line on the road and a solid line: now both these road markings have ends, but they illustrate the "without interruption" of "continuous" and the "without end" that "continual" is.
Continual obedience means space for falling into sin occasionally while learning to live by grace through faith: justification is by daily recommitment of faith, so we stay connected with Christ to experience righteousness.

Back to my original point...: Unless, the mind of Christ is imputed rather than imparted to us, created in us indeed, we cannot experience justification by faith as truly we do according to the Bible. Misplacing the mind of Christ, the rebirth, in imparted righteousness, i.e. sanctification - even if only by not placing it where it belongs, is false teaching, therefore, in effect: the power of the message is gone.

Colin, your explanation of "continual obedience" isn't clear to me. Here's what Ellen wrote:

"God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul." "When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience."

And here's what you wrote: "Continual obedience means space for falling into sin occasionally while learning to live by grace through faith. . . ."

It sounds like you're saying Ellen used "continual obedience" to mean disobeying occasionally. Or, did I misunderstand your point?

If Ellen meant to say, "When people surrender themselves to God entirely, when they know God as Jesus did, they will experience unbroken, uninterrupted, continual obedience like Jesus did" how would she say it? And, did she ever say it? If so, where?

Of course, even my statement above, that is, "unbroken, uninterrupted, continual obedience", does not imply born-again believers lose the ability or freedom to sin. They are always free to sin; even in heaven they are free to sin. However, the statement above is referring to the fact that, while abiding in Jesus, believers "do not sin" and "cannot sin". In other words, the righteous results of abiding in Jesus does not include occasional disobedience. Sinning is something that happens while believers are not abiding in Jesus. It does not and cannot happen while they are abiding in Jesus. Such obedience is literally continual. It is not interrupted or occasionally disobedient.

Do you see what I mean?

Is not abiding in Jesus a sin?

Tom, not abiding in Jesus is unbelief by choice or by omission, so is sin, for sin is separation from God. It's a principle, of course.

MM, "continual" is what you're misunderstanding, and sorry for being unhelpful last time: you switched around the definitions I supplied but those definitions are correct.

Continuous means occurring without interruption - or, here, sinning, from the start; continual means occurring without end - or as good as non-stop - but also occurring with gaps or interruptions, so, here, admitting to unintentional sinning.

So, "continual obedience" is what we go through, is it not?

Now! What of my original point, hey?!

Tom, neglecting to abide in Jesus results in sinning. Sinning is a sin.

My question is if not abiding in Jesus is itself a sin. Specifically, say you are abiding in Jesus. You make the decision (either by choice or neglect) to not abide in Jesus. Have you sinned?



What of this? Do you agree with what Colin has said here?

Colin, I'm struggling with the idea that "continual obedience" includes gaps, interruptions involving occasional disobedience. I strongly suspect it envisions faultless, blameless "righteousness and true holiness" and is continual, uninterrupted while believers consciously choose to abide in Jesus.

Regarding your original point. Here it is: "Unless, the mind of Christ is imputed rather than imparted to us, created in us indeed, we cannot experience justification by faith as truly we do according to the Bible. Misplacing the mind of Christ, the rebirth, in imparted righteousness, i.e. sanctification - even if only by not placing it where it belongs, is false teaching, therefore, in effect: the power of the message is gone."

Are you saying "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" is referring to the efficacy of justification by faith?

I believe justification and sanctification are fundamentally different aspects of righteousness by faith. Ellen wrote:

"Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification. Sanctification means habitual communion with God. {7BC 908}

Tom, I do not believe neglecting to abide in Jesus is a sin. Instead, I believe it results in sinning.

Ok, so you changed your mind regarding this. Before you said it was sin. I think what Colin said is correct:



Characterizing it as unbelief was perceptive of Colin. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but Colin is correct. It is unbelief, which is clear, when on thinks of it. And unbelief is the root of all sin.

So the idea that one cannot sin while abiding in Jesus is clearly false. One has to get from abiding to Jesus to not abiding to Jesus somehow, and there are no sinful ways to reach this change of state.

Thinking in these terms is a non-starter IMO anyway. EGW writes:



Here's the real issue. It's not so much if we're sinning or not sinning at some given moment (although grieving the Holy Spirit is a serious thing), but what are our characters like? If we were in heaven, would we long to flee from it? Would it be torture to us? Would God's character be to us a consuming fire?

This is why it's so important that we understand what God is really like. This is first and foremost. If we get this wrong, the rest doesn't matter.