Yes, I am on fire with flames are at my fingertips, I just got banned from a 3rd 'Christian' site for presenting what the scripture teaches. I was told I was not teaching what 'Mainstream Christianity' believes and thus denying the truth of 'eternal life', of twisting what God has given 'every man' and no one can take away, of putting forth 'unsound doctrine' which cannot be allowed as it would confuse true christians.

So what terrible evil was I posting about, what truth did I shred and post so twisted as to destroy what mainstream Christians believe...

One word 'Annihilation'....

I tried to post what the Bible says about how the wicked perish, and you would have thought I was preaching blasphemous words of atheism. I was told that if the wicked arent going to burn eternally, then the saints will not be saved eternally. That if the wicked dont suffer forver, then it is 'Universalism' because they arent properly punished and let off from what they richly deserve and now since 'the soul doesnt die' get a chance to enjoy heaven or some place other than eternal fire. Well let me put one post from one site to give you a idea...

"...and a sound reason why the doctrines of Annihilationism and Universalism have categorically been rejected within Mainstream Christianity....both offer a false hope of eternity for the wicked; either exemption from eternal suffering and torment of the wicked (annihilation) or a flat-out welcome of unrepentant wicked into Heaven without any responsibility for their uncovered sins. (univeralism)

If Hell, aka eternal torment and punishment for the wicked isn't eternal and everlasting as the scriptures tell us, then we can't have any hope that Heaven for the redeemed will be eternal and everlasting either.

I think your post is a good one to let this thread end on, since most of the Biblical reasons against Annihilationism have been mentioned already, and arguing to the contrary can only serve to cause someone unfamiliar with the scriptures to stumble, we'll let your thread be the final one on this topic and retire it here. If anyone wants to continue their arguement of Annihilationism, they are welcomed to do so in the Chat-to-Moderators subforum. We'll be glad to give you an ear in there, but not gonna give this doctrine a platform on the Open Forum.

"giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities."

"their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "

"the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone".....


How can the truth on this be taught to these 'Mainstream Christians', they seem to hate this truth with a passion, they seem to truly be scared that the soul can die. How would you present this truth...

I think what I would do in sites like that is simply quote passages from scripture in context and then start asking why scripture conflicts with their false doctrines and then proceed to show more scripture and ask why it conflicts with their explanations.

I've done this with visiting mormons who finally ended up leaving their own church. If you know your Bible well, this method works extremely well.

On a different stand point, a person who understands physics can use proofs in physics to dispel atheists. On that point, I've converted several hard core atheists to at least an agnostic stance. (Getting an agnostic to join the church is a bit more difficult.) If anyone has a good method for that please let me know.

Oh my brother, I tried every avenue but I feel I failed miserbly, I felt like a leper, they basically pointed at me and proclaimed 'unclean' then pummeled me with sharp posts for daring to bring such a 'doctrine' to them...

Now many of the sites have rules against teaching Annihilation but you can teach about Death or the Soul, or the ressurection and still be withing the rules..But this last one, they would not allow any points that led to that or that had the wicked perish in scripture. They basically said it isnt going to happen so dont show us any verses or even try..

shake the dust off your feet..., or take the moderators to book, with Scripture? If the leaders 'seek' persuasion separately, should we refuse?...!

Their favorite "eternal fire" text just needs some explanation. Guess who will live with "everlasting burnings?" (Isaiah 33:14)

The "eternal fire" is "God." Sodom suffered the vengeance of God. Sodom is not still burning, although the Fire still exists.

God is a fire...a "consuming fire." What does "consume" mean? What does "die" mean? "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Richard, pearls to pigs and city dust. Once you've presented the Scriptures on the subject in a winsome, non-argumentative manner leave well enough alone. Do not belabor the point. Leave it to the Holy Spirit to help them sort it out. Move on to common ground for awhile. Win their trust and affections on points held in common. Become well known as the guy who loves Jesus and would do anything to help a fellow pilgrim know Jesus better. You can count on Jesus to bless your efforts and energy to lead others into all truth.

Amen, MM: God alone can open our and other's minds to greater truths as he himself leads.

I agree with Mike. It is much easier to have an agreeable disagreement with someone you first got to know under more agreeable circumstances.