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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124581
04/06/10 05:23 AM
04/06/10 05:23 AM
B
Bravus  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Edmonton Alberta
Quote:
You have discovered that the resultant values do in fact all equal one. One point of information missed was that the first value, (let's say 3/3) represents 3 linear light days distance divided by 3 linear days time. The first value is a linear time space value. The passage of time (as mankind perceives it) is measured by angular time. The second values represent angular space divided by angular time.

Does that clarify anything?


Not really, no. If the units of the left term is light days/days (distance/time - the units don't actually matter, it could be lightyears per year or lightseconds per second) that's fine, but it just reduces to 1 lightday per day, which is the current speed of light.

If the units of the second term are radians/days (i.e. rotational motion over time (I have to admit I still struggle with the notion of 'angular time' as a unit)), then that term should be (n)2π/(n) in each case, which reduces to 2π. I guess unless the angular unit is complete rotations, in which case it's 'rotations/days', which gives one rotation per day for the earth - also constant.

Now, there are dimensional problems in multiplying one number in lightdays per day (a linear velocity term) by another number in rotations per day (an angular velocity term), but even more than that, if we allow all of these calculations...

(just clarifying, I was not at all critiquing the math in these calculations above)

If we allow all these calculations, it all comes down to a speed of light of one lightday per day, which is the same speed of light used in standard cosmology. Under those terms, light would take 13.7 billion years to travel 13.7 billion lightyears, not 6000 years.

So accepting your calculations on this point does not actually predict or describe a younger universe.

(again, it could still be that I don't understand properly)

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: Bravus] #124582
04/06/10 05:28 AM
04/06/10 05:28 AM
B
Bravus  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Edmonton Alberta
It made me wonder how the terms would differ if you had an unmoving viewing point at about Earth's distance from the sun, so that the daily rotation of the earth was not an issue. So you could be completely stationary within the reference frame of the rest of the universe. Would the 'rotation of the earth' term vanish from the equation?

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: Bravus] #124584
04/06/10 06:00 AM
04/06/10 06:00 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
Ugh. This model is in essense, a representation of the effective squaring of time space caused by a universe that is both expanding and rotating. Yes, if you have say 5 light days distance divided by 5 days time you have a speed equal to that of light. I'm apparently not representing how this model works in a correct fashion, otherwise, I would've expected that we would have moved on to something else. Linear space time relates to inertia. Angular space time relates to centrpetal force. The combination of the two causes an effect that is difficult to reveal yet has dramatic implications in regard to the changing temporal rate that light has with distance.

Multiply 5 linear light days by 5 rotational light days and you end up with 25 "resultant" light days. (Resultant distances are what you and I actually measure in regard to light.) This is part of the reason for my special terms. I'm not fully convinced that "curved space" is exactly the same as "angular space".

You get what I'm trying to say right?

If we perceive time by angular time and measure space from resultant space an apparent acceleration of light does occur. But the overall reality is that light's resultant distance per resultant time never exceeds that of c. We only think we exist with the same rules of time as light, this is purely illusionary.

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124585
04/06/10 06:14 AM
04/06/10 06:14 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
I think I should recap on this whole thing. There are basicly six components here:

rotational space
rotational time
linear space
linear time
resultant space
resultant time

We measure distances with resultant space.
We measure time with rotational time.
Rotational space relates to spacial effects from frame dragging.
Linear space is space independent of time spacial curvature.
Linear time is a temporal rate independent of ts curvature.
Resultant time is the temporal rate of light independent of mass.

Last edited by JCS; 04/06/10 06:15 AM.
Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124586
04/06/10 06:18 AM
04/06/10 06:18 AM
B
Bravus  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 17
Edmonton Alberta
Feeling obtuse, but still... Is your notion then that the earth is stationary and the entire universe is rotating around the earth once each day? I realise that that is relative and relates to reference frame, but that's the only way I can make sense of the daily rotation influencing the speed of light throughout the universe.

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: Bravus] #124587
04/06/10 06:26 AM
04/06/10 06:26 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
This is an old quote. There may be some points that I have modified on since.

Quote:
(1) If all em waves were observed from a dimensional perspective as straight beams, it becomes eliquently clear that the fabric of time-space consists of a squared matrix of light. All forms of radiation consist of waves.
(2) The effect on light isn't from Earth's rotation, but the relative frame dragging effects on Earth from the spinning mass of the cosmos. Qoute from Brian Greene's "The Fabric of the Cosmos" p. 417: "for a shell that contains enough mass, an amount on par with that contained in the entire universe, the calculations show that it doesn't matter one bit whether you think the hollow sphere is spinning around the bucket, or the bucket is spinning within the hollow sphere. Just as Mach advocated, the only thing that matters is the relative spinning motion between the two." Touching on the frequency of rotation, I actually was refering to the effective acceleration of light. A squared light year equals 133,407.5625 square light days. Divide this by 365.25 and you have 365.25 square light day "years", the distance light travels in one year.
(3) No, space squared doesn't equal time squared. (I didn't realize I made such a remark.) What I was stating was that if time "T" squared times the speed of light "C" squared equals a distance "D" squared, then the speed of light "C" squared equals the distance "D" squared divided by time "T" squared. (you can't argue with that) Yes, I am in fact refering to acceleration, i.e. the expansion rate of the cosmos.
This model is in fact geared from Kerr-Newman geometry where the visible universe consists of inverse time-space centered within the open space of a spinning singularity ring. Using this model, the light horizon is actually a Cauchy horizon.


Yeah, there's definitely some stuff in this quote that I later rectified.

Last edited by JCS; 04/06/10 06:30 AM.
Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124589
04/06/10 06:50 AM
04/06/10 06:50 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
I should add that this model is geared SOULLY from our perspective of light on Earth. The values for time and space are different depending on where you are. It is in effect, a special theory that is not yet generalized. I presently lack the "smarts" to create a general form of FF. The one I've got is already pushing my witts to the limit.

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124593
04/06/10 04:40 PM
04/06/10 04:40 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,494
Midland
A question I still have, which some of what I read of what you said kind of hinges on age of the universe, maybe I can summarize it by this:

Regarding the text which about the earth being without form and void with water over it before creation, what was the earth spinning in?

Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: kland] #124595
04/06/10 06:09 PM
04/06/10 06:09 PM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
An interesting question. Let me look closer at the verse for a second.

Quote:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Genesis 1:1-2


It's established that time space has already been brought into existence in the first sentence unless that is an introductive precursor statement. It's my understanding that the glory of God is or has angular gravitational energy. AGE for short is the inverse of the energy equation. when this form of energy comes into contact with anything it converts into mass.

Another key area I should point out is Stephen Hawking's arguement that extreme time space curvature actually creates elementary particles out of the fabric of time space itself. One other principle concept is that the mear presence of light induces energy into time space. This energy, from another standpoint, is an increase in time spacial rate for mass. It's fair to say that God is the source of light. If you subtract all energy from a point in space, time effectively stops at that point.

This still leaves the question, where does the fabric of time space come from? According to the FF model, the fabric of time space is created from combining AGE with frame dragging. To do this God would mearly need to move about a single defined point. Only God can define a point amidst a void of complete nothingness.

Sorry, I know I haven't answered your question yet. (I'm basicly brain storming out loud.) God defines what all things are even when they do not yet exist. I suspect that God spun around the Earth verses the unexisting Earth spinning in something itself. Of course it all breaks down to relative motion. If a relative motion is observed between a nonexistent point and the creator of all things, which is orbiting which or is it an equal balance?

Last edited by JCS; 04/06/10 06:13 PM.
Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash" [Re: JCS] #124597
04/06/10 08:35 PM
04/06/10 08:35 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: JCS
It's established that time space has already been brought into existence in the first sentence unless that is an introductive precursor statement. It's my understanding that the glory of God is or has angular gravitational energy. AGE for short is the inverse of the energy equation. when this form of energy comes into contact with anything it converts into mass.


An infinite God, with an infinite source of energy, contacting "anything" just converted into infinite mass....

So much for God speaking things into existence?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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