Very nice thoughts, Mark. Especially on 1 John 3:20.

Many Christians think that what happens when they are converted is that God changes from condemning them to not condemning them, but he's still condemning the unbeliever.

But Jesus points out that God condemns (judges) no one, and He likewise does not condemn (John 5; John 8: and John 12 bring this out).

John 3 explains that it is unbelief which brings condemnation; it causes those who "unbelieve" to feel uncomfortable around God (they do not want to come to the light).

We see this principle in Adam and Eve. After they sinned they ran and hid from God. Their sin/unbelief led them to view God in a way He is not; they feared Him and ran away from Him. But God had not changed. He still loved them and did all He could for them.

Our salvation depends upon our believing how good the good news is.

Hi Mark, here are some thoughts to consider,

You said,

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There are three sources of condemnation - where feelings of guilt originate - for those who walk after the flesh rather than after the Spirit - the law of God, a guilty conscience, and Satan. The three interact with each other.

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The point that I wish to address is whether these are "sources" of "Condemnation" or whether it is the way we treat them that determines whether our heart condemns us or not.

The Law: why should the law condemn? The law is information. Why should information condemn. If everybody that went to school would feel that way what would you think? There are many who eagerly go to school and pay for it so they could learn that which they did not know. Now there are those who detest learning and in their mind there is a negative response to information. So the information did not change; it is a blessing, yet those who detest it are condemned by their heart.

Conscience: is an impartial witness to information, thought, motives and action. Is that bad? Why should that condemn? It only tells us fairly if we have been true in the above. That could be desirable or undesirable, depending on what our heart is after. If our heart is true it (the heart) will not condemn us, but if it is not true, it (the heart) will condemn us, while at the same time dragging us deeper into sin.

Satan: Yes, Satan does accuse and condemn. But should that condemn us? That depends if there is something of his in us that he can lay hold of. If there is then Satan will condemn us through our heart. If there is not, he cannot condemn us.

So there is really only one place of condemnation: that is the heart. God is greater than our heart, so that we may come to him in faith and be healed from all the wrong attitudes, so that light will become desirable, conscience a cherished friend. And Satan will have nothing to lay hold on.

There are those that would feel condemned just because they saw someone that could have seen them. There is no end to what could trigger us to feel the condemnation of our heart.

There is no condemnation when the Lord is the Lord of our heart.

Tom and John, the idea that God does not judge or condemn sinners who reject the blood of Jesus, who refuse to accept Him as their personal Saviour, is false. The reason we feel guilt and shame when we sin is because that's the way we were created. But guilt and shame do not make up judgment and condemnation.

2 Timothy
4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

James
5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Luke
6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Mike, Jesus said in John 5 that the Father does not judge, and in John 8 and John 12 that He does not judge. It is His word that results in judgement. The judgement comes as a result of believing or doubting that word.

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22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 5:22; John 8:15; John 12:47, 48)

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If our hearts do not condemn us, we have full assurance before God. 1 John 5:21. It is when we believe the truth about God that our hearts do not condemn us.

What is Romans 8:1 referring to when it says there is 'no condemnation' - feelings of condemnation or literal condemnation before God. Isn't it the latter?

My comments above are on the sources of guilty feelings. Maybe we should clarify our points on that issue. Are we talking about the first or the second? How are the two related? Aren't there a lot of people who are dead spiritually but seem to have no significant feelings of guilt?

In fact, isn't that one of the main goals of secular psycologists - to rid their patients of the symptoms of sin without ridding them of the sin - not unlike secular physicians who too often tend to do the same on the physical side.

Yes, when Jesus first came He didn't judge or condemn anyone. But when He returns He will judge and condemn all those who rejected His blood.

To condemn means to destine, with a negative connotation. For example, the statement, "He who is ignorant of history is condemned to repeat it" could be said, "He who is ignorant of history is destined to repeat it." Similarly when a judge says, "I condemn you do death" he could say, "I destine you to death."

The destiny of every human being (with a few exceptions) is to come face to face with God after being resurrected. To the righteous, this will be life, for knowing God is life eternal. For the unrighteous, this will be death.

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The light of the glory of God, which imparts life to the righteous, will slay the wicked. DA 108

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Those who are in Christ have a postive destiny. There is no condemnation for them. Those who do believe are destined for negative things (i.e. condemned)

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By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. (DA 764)

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Sin and unbelief cause those who gives themselves over to these things to view God in a wrong light. This leads them to feel uncomfortable in God's presence, which principle we see explained in John 3. There are many examples of this, including Adam and Eve, the Children of Israel (who sent Moses on their behalf) Jonah, Judas, the wicked at Christ's coming (who would rather have a mountain fall on their heads than to look at the One who redeemed them), and so on.

Sin and unbelief leads to condemnation because it results in the formation of character which cannot stand the full revelation of God's character. Since the destiny of all is to come face to face with God, those who go the sin/unbelief route are condemned (negative destiny) while those in Christ are destined for good things.

Mike,

1) Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
2) The statement refereced are *future*; they do not relate to what Christ was doing 2000 years ago, but what will happen:
a) The Father *will* judge no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son. (this is talking about the judgment)
b) Christ said He would judge no one, but His words would judge:

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And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:47, 48

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Those who come up in the second resurrection are judged and condemned or destined for the lake of fire. Not only do feel uncomfortable in the presence of God, they conspire to kill Him, and the saints, and the angels. Then they turn upon themselves and the evil angels. In the middle of this blood bath God rains fire and brimstone down upon them and they suffer and die according to their sinfulness. The results of judgment and condemnation are clearly things we should strive to avoid. We must clothe ourselves with the robe of Christ's righteousness, and walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man. Only then are we safe from the judgment and condemnation of God.