Ico, let's look at that idea for a moment - the idea that a heavenly being came down on 9/11.

In the parallels you cite, the start of Christ's ministry and the attention given to the millerite message after August 11, 1840, in those cases the public in general was challenged with a fuller revelation of truth. In contrast Pippenger's views are directed at and appeal to a narrow segment of Adventism rather than to the public.

I never read Jeff Pippenger but know that Mark is able to be objective and bring a good summary. I can see many in the church having the "fear" to be label as dissenter and refuse to see that Dan 12 and most Prophecies in Revelation are futur for EGW has said this in just a few passages, and it conflicts with past interpretations of those scriptures.

I really have a problem and see a great danger in believing in multiple fulfillment of prophecies. I have expressed that opinion with reasons in the "EGW a Futurist" topic.

Christ Speaking in Rev 10 & Dan 12

One thing to note about Rev 10 and the 7 thunders, is in verse 5 & 6 we have a picture of an angel standing and swearing there will be time no more. I believe this angel is Christ. What he says in rev 5&6 is very similar to Dan 12:7. I believe Dan:7 and Rev 5&6 is the same prophetic element having Christ speaking also in Dan 12.



Christ Speaking(Thundering) about the End Time





What is the 7 Thunder ABout?
Notice what was Christ thundering about and when the 7 thunders finish? In red we see that the thundering is relating to the "Mystery of God".

When is the 7 Thunder going to be finish?
And I believe the thundering will be finishing at the beginning of the sound of the 7th trumpet as shown in verse 7. That's when the close of probation takes place.

What is the "Mystery of God"
And what is the "mystery of God" is Christ in you = born again = New birth = the "last" but the "greatest" harvest that's going to take place during the end time.

To whom the 7 Thunders are declared
Highlighted in Blue, notice that these 7 thunders are declared to the servants the prophets.

What is declared to the Servants the Prophets?
Things relating to the "mystery of God" which is Christ in you, which is the Gospel message.

Who are the Servants the Prophets?
I believe it is the 144K that are sealed before the trumpets starts to sound. They will deliver the last message. They will prophesy again of the coming of Christ with judgment. They will be given the 7 thunders from Christ directly during the sealing.

The sealing is happening now, brothers and sisters. The 7 thunders are being given to those who are sitting at the feet of Jesus and learning only from him. 1Jn 2:27

Mrs. White repeatedly speaks of prophecies and history being repeated, Elle. Like this statement in Testimonies to Ministers:


She is saying that the "history" of Revelation and Daniel are to be repeated. That "history" was prophecy of the future at one time.

Here are some more of her statements relating to repeated fulfillments of prophecy.


Mrs. White points out multiple instances of Christ having intended double meaning to His words. If Jesus would make statements in person which hold double meaning, why would He not also, by His Spirit, express things through the prophets with double meaning as well? Jesus' words on multiple occasions were to be twice fulfilled in prophecy.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Thanks Green for your reply. I understand that EGW says that, but does the Bible say that. Does the Bible say that prophecies are to have multiple applications? We had discussed about that in the other thread and you failed to supply proof from the Bible.

This is a very solemn subject, I pray that you all ask for the Holy Spirit for understanding on this very important subject.

Let us be clear first of what we do know and what has been overwhelmingly revealed to us.

1 - The Seven Thunders are events, there are things associated with the events, but we must first acknowledge this without doubt or question. Please read the previously posted quotes, I do not want to post all that again.

2 - The testing came to God's people first. It doesn't matter where you look, whether in Ezekiel, Revelation, Matthew, EGW, God's people are always tested first. Period, there is no way the rest of the world will be tested before the Seventh Adventist People are tested. This is another subject that can be taken at another time.

3 - Time is no longer after October 22, 1844

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Does Christ need to sware?, but here He does to emphasize there are no more time prophecies. It is amazing how many of the popular adventist evangelist and are re-applying time prophecies. Brothers and sisters, do not be fooled by false teachers, Christ Himself declared this important fact.

There are prophecies waiting to be fulfilled, but they can not be time prophecies, 1Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

4 - And lastly, regarding does the bible say that prophecies have multiple applications? Absolutely, please read the previous post on Christ The First and The Last, The Alpha and The Omega.

But not only that and this is what is incredible and amazing about the Word of God, is that all the writing of the ancient prophets have more weight and more meaning for our time than the time that they were writing! That's right, the primary focus of their writing was for us! So that we could know what was going to happen in our time. This is stunning!


“Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. ‘Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.’ 1 Corinthians 10:11. ‘Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.’ 1 Peter 1:12. . . .
“The Bible has accumulated and bound up together its treasures for this last generation. All the great events and solemn transactions of Old Testament history have been, and are, repeating themselves in the church in these last days.” Selected Messages, book 3, 338–339.


ENSAMPLES: 5179. tupos, too-pos; from 5180; a die (as struck), i.e. (by impl.) a stamp or scar; by anal. a shape, i.e. a statue, (fig.) style or resemblance; spec. a sampler (“type”), i.e. model (for imitation) or instance (for warning):—en. (ex.) ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print. The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.


“These men of the Old Testament spoke of things transpiring in their day, and Daniel, Isaiah, and Ezekiel not only spoke of things that concerned them as present truth, but their sights reached down to the future, and to what should occur in these last days.” Selected Messages, book 3, 419–420.

This is Jesus Christ Himself revealing this important truth at the end. And where does He do this?

Right there in the first chapter of Revelation, the Revelation of The Lion of The Tribe of Judah, Roaring, but will you hear?

Welcome to the forum 1co. To tell you a little about where I stand, I only base my belief and understanding of doctrines and prophecies on the Bible alone and the teaching of Christ throught His Spirit. I think highly of Ellen White, but I will not use her writings to understand prophecies or doctrines.

Yes, I agree.



That could be so, or it may not be so. The book of Revelation and Daniel already is filled with prophesies marking events. So, since the voice of God was associated with the word Thunder in Rev 10; then I'm more incline to think it may be associated with the Lost Gospel Truth.

If you look at how the word thunder when associated with God's voice in the Bible, it is not frequently associated with events. Events might accompany it, but the main thrust of the usage is to declare something or to convict the heart.

Here's is the usage of thunder and thundering in the Bible:

In the OT there's two words used for thunder

H6963 that means "to call out", a voice, or a sound. which is primairly translated as voice 383x(times), and only used as thunder 10 times and thundering 2 times.

This is the context it was used
- in the plague of hail & fire & Thunder, Ex 9:23,28,29...
- Thunder + lightning : To proclaim the 10Commandments EX 19:16; 20:18
- in a war to discomfort the Philistines 1Sa7:10
- thunder + rain : to convict the Israelites of their sins when they ask for a King 1Sa 12:17
- For God to utter His voice : 2Sa 22:14; Ps 29:3; 18:13; 77:18; Job 37:4,5; 40:9;

H7482 only mean thunder as we understand thunder and differ in meaning from H6963, despite both can have the same sound of thunder especially for an fearful unbeliever. However, H6963 the sound is associated with the voice of God which carries forth conviction and impression on the heart to the unbeliever.

The NT usage of Thundering is less descriptive as a definition.

G1027 means "to roar" used thunder 8x, thundering 4x

A. In the gospel, it was used when the Father uttered His voice of delight when Jesus was baptized, and at the transfiguration.

B. What's interesting in the NT is the usage of Thunder(G1027) in Revelation

Rev 4:5 : Thunder and Lightning and Voices proceeded from the throne of God
Rev 6:1 : To announce the opening of the 1st Seal
Rev 8:5 : To mark when the censer cast on earth
Rev 10:3 : The 7 Thunders
Rev 11:19 : To mark the 7th Trumpet Sound
Rev 14:2 : To mark the sealing of the 144K
Rev 16:18 : After the 7th bowl is poured
Rev 19: 6 : The voices of the great multitude in heaven

Yes I agree that we're going to be tested first, however, I now understand the "testing" differently now. But again it's another discussion.

As what relates to the 7 Thunders of Rev 10, I believe the testing is now. By the time the 7 thunders are completly uttered, the test will be over and God will have sealed His servants the Prophets with the 7 thunders and will go and make the mystery of God known to the world.

God is declaring his 7 Thunders TODAY to His servants the Prophets(144K)and seeling them with it, before they start proclaiming the good news for 1260 days during the time of tribulation found in Dn 12 and Rev 11, and other places.

Study Is 29:1-8 which seems to relate to this event.



1co, Christ is not swearing that their's no more time prophecies here. That's not what is written.

It is written "that there should be time no longer".

Time no longer for what?

The answer is found in the next verse: when he shall begin to sound (the 7th trumpet)"the mystery of God should be finish, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

(I don't know if you are SDA or not but) The Seven Thunders are extremely fascinating, what we are discussing here is just the intro, barely scratching the surface. As you dig deeper, it becomes more and more amazing.

Upon the testimony of two or three, a thing is established. Because God established it. Jesus said this of Himself, so even He applied this rule to Himself.

Does God have a chosen people on earth, denominated peculiar distinct from the rest? Yes it's the Seventh Day Adventist. Did He make a covenant with them? Yes and He gave us a name. What is one of the things that establishes us as the true chosen people of God? The testimony of Christ. If we do not have the testimony of Christ, The Spirit of Prophecy, then we are a false church, because it is one of the requirements for Gods people.

This is one of the clearest truths in the bible, rejecting the SOP is rejecting Christ Himself because when He roars, what is the roar? It is prophecy, the sure word of prophecy. Gods church must have a prophet.

I'm not even going to give a quote here, because I'd have to quote just about the entire bible. Well maybe just one quote, ". . . where there is no vision, the people parish . . ." Prov. 29:18

One more thing, we are the only people who are going to understand the seven thunders, as a people, because it is only through the SOP that you can remove that seal. This will be clearer down the line, a little patience. I know of a few non-adventist that are understanding this message, but very few. We on the other hand, are required to understand this. It is part of our DNA, it is our foundation.

Yes I am SDA, nearly 3 decades attending every Sabbath! I'm very well familiar with our doctrines, our prophetic believes, our spiritual condition, etc... recently started to take EGW counsel to study my Bible seriously and test all beliefs.


Our brothers and sisters are dying not because of "lack of vision" but because we have married the world, we have compromised on truth, we let our men and woman being taught by man and not by Christ(read the spiritual formation thread), we let an "organization" be the head of our Church, etc... I could elaborate more but will stop there.


Well, I hope you can back up what you say with the Bible. I don't believe that you can remove the seal with the SOP. It will be ONLY through Christ Jesus' direct teachings. You are making the SOP a replacement of your dear teacher, Christ. 1Jn2:27, Jer 31:34; Jn 6:45, 1Co 2:10; Mic 4:2 Ellen White said at a few places that she didn't understand Daniel 12 and that book was sealed to her and that there was much more light to obtain. Daniel 12 and Rev 10 are talking about the same prophecy and one shed light on the other.

1co I will wait for your answer of my comments of your obvious facts #1, #2, #3, before letting you know what I think of your #4.

Elle,

Do you replace your "dear teacher, Christ" with the writings of the apostle Paul or the apostle John?

If so, why? If not, why not?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.