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Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #125959
06/20/10 06:42 PM
06/20/10 06:42 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Can the Law save us? The answer might be obvious from my signature verse..


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: vastergotland] #126009
06/23/10 02:02 AM
06/23/10 02:02 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #126066
06/26/10 04:07 PM
06/26/10 04:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The law is a transcript of God's character. It is a description of what it means to be saved. People who live in harmony with the law are saved from sin.

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #126072
06/26/10 06:15 PM
06/26/10 06:15 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.

Yes but, before sin, man's obedience to the law would have won him eternal life.

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #126073
06/26/10 06:18 PM
06/26/10 06:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The law is a transcript of God's character. It is a description of what it means to be saved. People who live in harmony with the law are saved from sin.

Yes, but, as sinners, even if we kept the law perfectly in the future we couldn't be saved.

Christ died because there was no other hope for the transgressor. He might try to keep God's law in the future; but the debt which he had incurred in the past remained, and the law must condemn him to death. Christ came to pay that debt for the sinner which it was impossible for him to pay for himself. Thus, through the atoning sacrifice of Christ, sinful man was granted another trial. {FW 30.1}

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Rosangela] #126086
06/27/10 02:43 AM
06/27/10 02:43 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
T:The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.

R:Yes but, before sin, man's obedience to the law would have won him eternal life.


I don't think this is a good way of looking at it. I've found the following passage to be very helpful:

Quote:
The principles of kindness, mercy, and love, taught and exemplified by our Saviour, are a transcript of the will and character of God. Christ declared that He taught nothing except that which He had received from His Father. The principles of the divine government are in perfect harmony with the Saviour's precept, "Love your enemies." God executes justice upon the wicked, for the good of the universe, and even for the good of those upon whom His judgments are visited. He would make them happy if He could do so in accordance with the laws of His government and the justice of His character. He surrounds them with the tokens of His love, He grants them a knowledge of His law, and follows them with the offers of His mercy; but they despise His love, make void His law, and reject His mercy. While constantly receiving His gifts, they dishonor the Giver; they hate God because they know that He abhors their sins. The Lord bears long with their perversity; but the decisive hour will come at last, when their destiny is to be decided. Will He then chain these rebels to His side? Will He force them to do His will?

Those who have chosen Satan as their leader and have been controlled by his power are not prepared to enter the presence of God. Pride, deception, licentiousness, cruelty, have become fixed in their characters. Can they enter heaven to dwell forever with those whom they despised and hated on earth? Truth will never be agreeable to a liar; meekness will not satisfy self-esteem and pride; purity is not acceptable to the corrupt; disinterested love does not appear attractive to the selfish. What source of enjoyment could heaven offer to those who are wholly absorbed in earthly and selfish interests?

Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to heaven and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there,-- every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor of God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sitteth upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God. (GC 541-543)


I love this passage, so I quoted it at length, even those this it's a bit much to quote. Lots of food for thought here.

At any rate, the salient point is brought out in the last paragraph, which describes how those who act contrary to the principles of agape would not be happy in heaven. It's not that one wins or earns heaven by what one does, regardless of whether one has sinned or not, but one's character is either such that heaven would be a pleasant place to live in (for both the person involved, and the others there), or it wouldn't.

The law is a transcript of God's character, and so descries those who are like God in character, which is to say, those who prefer others to themselves.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #126114
06/28/10 07:28 PM
06/28/10 07:28 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
T:The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.

R:Yes but, before sin, man's obedience to the law would have won him eternal life.

T:I don't think this is a good way of looking at it.... It's not that one wins or earns heaven by what one does, regardless of whether one has sinned or not, but one's character is either such that heaven would be a pleasant place to live in (for both the person involved, and the others there), or it wouldn't.

No, I'm not looking at the law as a means to obtain something desirable (eternal life) for selfish purposes. What I'm saying is that obedience to the law (love in your heart) is the way to to enjoy the sweet presence of God for ever, which is endless happinness.

"In the beginning, God gave His law to mankind as a means of attaining happiness and eternal life." {AG 134.2}

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Rosangela] #126119
06/28/10 08:05 PM
06/28/10 08:05 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
T:The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.

R:Yes but, before sin, man's obedience to the law would have won him eternal life.

T:I don't think this is a good way of looking at it.... It's not that one wins or earns heaven by what one does, regardless of whether one has sinned or not, but one's character is either such that heaven would be a pleasant place to live in (for both the person involved, and the others there), or it wouldn't.

No, I'm not looking at the law as a means to obtain something desirable (eternal life) for selfish purposes. What I'm saying is that obedience to the law (love in your heart) is the way to to enjoy the sweet presence of God for ever, which is endless happinness.

"In the beginning, God gave His law to mankind as a means of attaining happiness and eternal life." {AG 134.2}


16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I suppose someone will enlighten me on why Rosangelas quote and mine are really saying the same thing..


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: vastergotland] #126120
06/28/10 08:26 PM
06/28/10 08:26 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: västergötland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
T:The law is just a concept. It's not a living thing. It can't do anything.

R:Yes but, before sin, man's obedience to the law would have won him eternal life.

T:I don't think this is a good way of looking at it.... It's not that one wins or earns heaven by what one does, regardless of whether one has sinned or not, but one's character is either such that heaven would be a pleasant place to live in (for both the person involved, and the others there), or it wouldn't.

No, I'm not looking at the law as a means to obtain something desirable (eternal life) for selfish purposes. What I'm saying is that obedience to the law (love in your heart) is the way to to enjoy the sweet presence of God for ever, which is endless happinness.

"In the beginning, God gave His law to mankind as a means of attaining happiness and eternal life." {AG 134.2}


16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I suppose someone will enlighten me on why Rosangelas quote and mine are really saying the same thing..

No, they're not saying the same thing.

"Jesus is the head of the church."

"I have difficulty finding hats because of my big head."

"I bought a head of lettuce and chopped it up."

For the same reason, these 3 quotes are not saying the same thing.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: asygo] #126121
06/28/10 08:53 PM
06/28/10 08:53 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
What I'm saying is that obedience to the law (love in your heart) is the way to to enjoy the sweet presence of God for ever, which is endless happinness.


Amen to this!


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Page 26 of 27 1 2 24 25 26 27

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