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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126816
08/20/10 03:02 PM
08/20/10 03:02 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Ellen White used the expression "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little" to point out the importance of slowly indoctrinating people in their understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus. It is possible to inculcate the principles of righteousness, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little, until the desires and inclinations of the heart are in harmony with the mind and will of God. {HP 212.4}
I am instructed to say to our churches, Study the Testimonies. They are written for our admonition and encouragement, upon whom the ends of the world are come. If God's people will not study these messages that are sent to them from time to time, they are guilty of rejecting light. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little, God is sending instruction to His people. Heed the instruction; follow the light. The Lord has a controversy with His people because in the past they have not heeded His instruction and followed His guidance. {3SM 358.2}
Painstaking effort, prayer and faith, when united with a correct example, will not be fruitless. Bring your children to God in faith, and seek to impress their susceptible minds with a sense of their obligations to their heavenly Father. It will require lesson upon lesson, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.--Review and Herald, Nov. 6, 1883. {Te 157.5}
Those who instruct children should avoid tedious remarks. Short remarks and to the point will have a happy influence. If much is to be said, make up for briefness by frequency. A few words of interest now and then will be more beneficial than to have it all at once. Long speeches burden the small minds of children. Too much talk will lead them to loathe even spiritual instruction, just as overeating burdens the stomach and lessens the appetite, leading even to a loathing of food. The minds of the people may be glutted with too much speechifying. Labor for the church, but especially for the youth, should be line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. Give minds time to digest the truths you feed them. Children must be drawn toward heaven, not rashly, but very gently. {2T 420.1}
Those who have been educated in the truth by precept and example should make great allowance for others who have had no knowledge of the Scriptures except through the interpretations given by ministers and church members, and who have received traditions and fables as Bible truth. They are surprised by the presentation of truth, it is as a new revelation to them, and they cannot bear to have all the truth, in its most striking character, presented to them at the outset. All is new and strange, and wholly unlike that which they have heard from their ministers; and they are inclined to believe what the ministers have told them--that Seventh-day Adventists are infidels and do not believe the Bible. Let the truth be presented as it is in Jesus, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. {9T 240.2}
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126890
08/24/10 02:45 PM
08/24/10 02:45 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Do you agree with the above use of the expression?
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126892
08/24/10 03:03 PM
08/24/10 03:03 PM
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OP
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I agree that your selection of quotes, such as they are above posted, do indeed have Ellen teaching that people (especially children it seems) should be taught in small portions received often. Or as you say, slow indoctrination.
This is then (with the caveat that I did not check the context of these paragraphs) the correct interpretation of Ellens use of this phrase. It does not change that this is the wrong interpretation of Isaiahs use of the phrase (or the passage translated into this english phrase).
Noted that Ellens use of said phrase use did not support prooftexting, but is a method of dispersing truth arrived at through real education and study.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126899
08/24/10 11:31 PM
08/24/10 11:31 PM
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Active Member 2012
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For example, Moses wrote about Isaac and Paul took what he wrote and arrived at new truth not specifically spelled out by Moses.
Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. What was the "new truth" you think Paul wrote? That Christ was Abraham's seed? Or that the promises were made to Abraham and His seed? Or something else?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Tom]
#126900
08/25/10 12:46 AM
08/25/10 12:46 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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It does not change that this is the wrong interpretation of Isaiahs use of the phrase (or the passage translated into this english phrase).
Noted that Ellens use of said phrase use did not support prooftexting, but is a method of dispersing truth arrived at through real education and study. Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which [is] in Jerusalem. Thomas, do you think Ellen's use of the expression is taken out of context? If so, what do you think is the proper meaning of the expression?
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Tom]
#126902
08/25/10 01:17 AM
08/25/10 01:17 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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For example, Moses wrote about Isaac and Paul took what he wrote and arrived at new truth not specifically spelled out by Moses.
Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. What was the "new truth" you think Paul wrote? That Christ was Abraham's seed? Or that the promises were made to Abraham and His seed? Or something else? Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward. 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house [is] this Eliezer of Damascus? 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD [came] unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 15:7 And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. 15:8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? 15:9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. 15:10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. 15:11 And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away. 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full. 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 15:19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 15:20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 15:21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. In Genesis 15 God makes it clear to Abram that Sarai will bear him a son whose descendants will inherit Canaan after a period of captivity and be in number as the sand and stars. "Thy seed" in this passage does not refer to Jesus.
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126907
08/25/10 07:30 AM
08/25/10 07:30 AM
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OP
Active Member 2011
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It does not change that this is the wrong interpretation of Isaiahs use of the phrase (or the passage translated into this english phrase).
Noted that Ellens use of said phrase use did not support prooftexting, but is a method of dispersing truth arrived at through real education and study. Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. 28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which [is] in Jerusalem. Thomas, do you think Ellen's use of the expression is taken out of context? If so, what do you think is the proper meaning of the expression? I dont think Ellen is trying to exegete what Isaiah is saying in his prophecy in any of your quotes. She is most likely squarely within her own context, and unless you can show otherwise never tries to be within Isaiahs context with this phrase. As for what I think is the proper context of Isaiah chapter 28, I refer you to the beginning of this thread.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: vastergotland]
#126909
08/25/10 02:54 PM
08/25/10 02:54 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Thomas, do you agree with the following observation (quoted by you in the opening post): Isa 28:10, in context seems to say the very opposite of our familiar interpretation. Instead of God's direction to learn by taking a little here and a little there, the context seems to show it instead as a consequence that comes upon God's people (especially the priests and prophets) who are drunk, careless, and refuse to hear His word. It is to those who would *not* hear that the word of the Lord becomes "precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line."
Personally, I think the context indicates Jesus was forced to share truth slowly, methodically with the mismanaged Jews. Their retarded, stunted state required it. Paul addressed a similar situation when he wrote: "We have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Ellen applied this principle to teaching the truth to children and new converts.
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126912
08/25/10 07:28 PM
08/25/10 07:28 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Personally, I think the context indicates Jesus was forced to share truth slowly, methodically with the mismanaged Jews. You're saying this is the context of Isa. 28:10? 7 Now, however, Israel is led by drunks who reel with wine and stagger with alcohol. The priests and prophets stagger with alcohol and lose themselves in wine. They reel when they see visions and stagger as they render decisions. 8 Their tables are covered with vomit; filth is everywhere. 9 “Who does the Lord think we are?” they ask. “Why does he speak to us like this? Are we little children, just recently weaned? 10 He tells us everything over and over— one line at a time, one line at a time, a little here, and a little there!” (New Living Translation) This seems to make clear the point that was made in the OP.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "line upon line, here a little, there a little"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#126915
08/25/10 08:36 PM
08/25/10 08:36 PM
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OP
Active Member 2011
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Posts: 3,965
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Thomas, do you agree with the following observation (quoted by you in the opening post): Isa 28:10, in context seems to say the very opposite of our familiar interpretation. Instead of God's direction to learn by taking a little here and a little there, the context seems to show it instead as a consequence that comes upon God's people (especially the priests and prophets) who are drunk, careless, and refuse to hear His word. It is to those who would *not* hear that the word of the Lord becomes "precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line."
Personally, I think the context indicates Jesus was forced to share truth slowly, methodically with the mismanaged Jews. Their retarded, stunted state required it. Paul addressed a similar situation when he wrote: "We have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Ellen applied this principle to teaching the truth to children and new converts. Jesus began sharing truth through parables so that they who would not understand could not understand. Matt 13:12ff Luke 8:9ff Paul chides the hebrews for not moving on in their understanding and discussion; Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Have we understood these and moved onward, or would Paul find reason to chide us also for insisting on milk rather than meat? Ellen of course used the phrase as pointed out in the above posts. It thus seems to me that though all three mentioned persons discussed the education of the people, each come from a distinct angle not shared with the others and all are different from Isaiah 28.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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