The root of all sin is unbelief. Unbelief has to do with seeing God in a wrong way, as cruel, harsh and arbitrary. When we see God as He is, comapassionate, kind and gracious, we are healed by that truth.

Jesus said knowing the truth would set us free. When we see Christ, we have seen the Father.

1 John tells us that when Christ comes, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is. EGW tells us when Christ's character is reproduced in His people, then He will come and claim them as His own. It is by beholding that we become transformed. This again shows the same principle that it is by knowing the truth about God that we will be healed. Knowing God as He truly is will prepare us for Christ's coming.

Agape, God's love, casts out all fear.

Not one in one hundred.

Is the forgiveness of sin the same as the blotting out of sin? Both are mentioned in scripture.

We are not safe if we neglect to search the Scriptures daily for light and knowledge. Earthly blessings cannot be obtained without toil, and can we expect that spiritual
and heavenly blessings will come without earnest effort on our part? The mines of truth are to be worked. Says the psalmist, "The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple" (Ps. 119:130). The Word of God must not be kept apart from our life. It must be entertained in the mind, welcomed in the heart, and be cherished, loved, and obeyed. We need also much more knowledge; we need to be enlightened in regard to the plan of salvation. There is not one in one hundred who understands for himself the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare. When light begins to shine forth to make clear the plan of redemption to the people, the enemy works with all diligence that the light may be shut away from the hearts of men. If we come to the Word of God with a teachable, humble spirit, the rubbish of error will be swept away, and gems of truth, long hidden from our eyes, will be discovered. {1SM 359.2}

After Noah was referred to as perfect in Genesis 6:9, we read in Genesis 9 of his problem with alcohol. I have known of people who felt that they had achieved perfection and were no longer sinning, or that they were almost there with just one or two things left to overcome. Since sin is deliberate disobedience, we always have a lot of room to grow, because we are ever learning. Generations of people have died in the faith not living up to the light that we have now. I think what God means by perfection is not easily understood, and our misunderstanding can be a stumbling block. This is one of those things God will take care of if we are holding nothing back from Him.

To be perfect is to be like Christ. If we misunderstand what Christ is like, we will not be perfect, because by beholding we become changed. The quest for perfection begins with perfectly seeing Christ as He is.

Living without a Mediator is more than just "an SDA interpretation of the Jacob story." Several Scriptures sustain this, such as the yom kippur as described in Leviticus 16, the cleansing of the sanctuary as described in Daniel 8:13, 14, and the quite explicit text found in Revelation 22:11, 12. There was a time in Leviticus 16 when the camp was cleansed and all sin removed, there is a time at the end when the same happens with regard to the whole human population. Rev 22 is of course supremely straightforward. This is besides many other pictures of a close of probation in Scripture, such as Noah and the ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Besides of course we have the explicit EGW statements. Between all the evidences, we are left with little doubt.

There is no Old Testament doctrine of righteousness by works in the Bible. From Adam's disobedience to this day, no man could be saved by his works. Nor will any be able to after the close of probation. To suggest this is to misrepresent what we teach. Righteousness has always been by faith. Notice that true Jewishness a changed heart. Deuteronomy 10:16 shows this to be the case from Moses onward. Paul understands this in Romans 2:9.

We never stand on our own attainment or perfection. Yet it is correct to understand that in the investigative judgment an evaluation is made to see whether we truly let God operate in us by faith to change us, whether we really accepted His justification by faith, a process that not only counts one right but makes one right.

Far, far from tearing off the cloak of Jesus to replace it with the rags of self exaltation, Adventists are seeking to follow the very teachings of Jesus. Look at this. The common view of salvation in the evangelical world is built on a misconstrued interpretation of select writings from Paul. Certain passages are taken from Romans, Ephesians, and Galatians, while the gospels are mostly ignored. Bible studies on salvation tend to dip into Romans and sometimes gospel of John, but they don't stay in the gospels very long. Usually, they just quote someone calling for repentance. Actually, we want to be true to everything Paul has written about salvation (which includes Titus 2:11-14, 3:1-5; Colossians 1:27-29; Philippians 2:5-13; Romans 2:13; 12:1, 2; etc.) along with everything the other Bible writers have said concerning it. Yes, that includes the much neglected gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke, which have many neglected points we could list. The point is, SDAs are seeking to be true to all of Scripture and rightly divide the word, while others in many cases are only teaching a viewpoint on salvation that is built up from a very limited selection of passages and a very distorted viewpoint on salvation that neither Hebrew language background people nor Greek language background people would recognize.

The tirade against perfection a few posts above is as equally misinformed and misrepresenting as the other points made by the same party. Perfection is our privilege. It is a biblical word, presented via lips from Jesus to Paul. In Revelation 14:1-5 a people are presented who stand before god's throne faultless and blameless. They are not an inactive passive sort either, for in Revelation 14:4 they follow the lamb wherever He goes.

That is, their final condition, in which they live without sinning after the close of probation and before the Second Coming, is one which they have come to only by following the Lamb whithersoever He went--and as He lived His whole life beyond the close of probation (He could never choose to sin without loosing the great controversy war), it is our precious privilege to follow Him into a closeness with God that is so great that we will have cooperated with His efforts to harmonize us with His kingdom. We will let Him will and do in us according to His good pleasure and His good pleasure is to redeem us from all iniquity, to make us unselfish in our sphere as He is in His sphere.

So Seventh-day Adventists are simply letting God take them to all things for life and godliness He has provided for us, to take us to unselfishness. I find no cause for insinuation or invective to be mounted against the present truth and our Adventist people for their desire to follow the Lamb. Much more might be said, but perfection is a privilege. Those who experience it will be the last to vocalize it or even think it of themselves.

Why insinuate evil? How do you know if the doctrine is presented from a need to control others, or from a honest heart motivation to help prevent others from being lost? I suggest that the criticisms made a few posts up are ill-founded superficial. I encourage those who may have developed a negativity toward present truth to consider the possibility that they try to reinvestigate these things without any chip on their shoulder and be fair to the inspired evidences, imagining only the best motives in others. I don't want to seem hard, but as I study my Bible I cannot help but feel that many who today are grumping and griping against the Third Angel's Message would those of whom our God asks, "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" (Job 38:2).

The Seventh-day Adventist faith is a wonderful way to live life because it is the current, cutting-edge Jesus and believer relationship appropriate for this hour. As all this world passes swirling away down the toilethole, God's arm is still outstretched to save, to redeem, to pluck every brand from the burning that will take hold on His strength and make peace with Him. I call this the gospel, and you will have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers. But I don't intend to die. I intend to walk out of this world with Jesus. I intend to be translated without seeing death. If you want to condemn me for this, be my guest. It won't change the truth of God. It won't change His purpose to make us "meet [hicanosanti, enabled, sufficient, competent] to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light" (Colossians 1:12).

Its the gospel. Its the Bible. Its the truth. Its the way of Jesus. This is why I am a Christian.

There are some things in Restin’s post that I agree with at least on some level. Although I don’t agree with the “switcharoo”, or that it is borne from the need to control others (LK explained it well), I do agree with the part about our attitude towards, relationship with and reliance upon Jesus as the basis for Christian perfection. I also think that the doctrine that Restin refers to (or more an aberration of this doctrine) tends to appeal to those who DO like to control others and is sometimes a dominate representation in some congregations. But that doesn’t make the core doctrine wrong; it just makes it misrepresented in practice.

Jeff

DenBorg, I agree with your assessment on the legalistic mindset—well said. I even agree in general with what you said about misplaced focus. Except:

quote:

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Those who always asks, when presented with the idea of living without sinning, "Show me just one person who has achieved this", or "Is anyone there yet?" should ask instead, "How can I become more like Christ?", or "How can I walk more closely with God?"

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You should probably not assume that all who ask questions like “is anyone there yet?” that the question seeks to imply that it is not possible. For example, I have not yet expressed my view on the matter, yet I asked a question that appears on your misplaced focus list. That being the case, I think I should probably get to it.

My understanding is that to believe that “perfection” is unobtainable, is to believe that Jesus Christ was a liar when He said, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Mat 19:26 NASB) Certainly Christian perfection is impossible with people, but not impossible through God.

I asked the question more as an implied abstraction that a sanctified heart would probably not claim, especially publicly, that he or she had “arrived” at perfection. I guess Thomas was a bit more direct by asking his question. Ronnie, I think, answered the question well with the scripture reference Phil 3:13, 14. It seems that one cannot say much else in regards to his or her own pressing on towards the goal until the end. Paul, near his end, simply said, “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith” (2Ti 4:7 NASB)

I cringe sometimes when I see the question of perfection raised in forums like this, as it has the potential to evolve into a spitting contest between the most conservative and most liberal posters. Thankfully, that has not yet happened on this thread. Still it is a question that we should discuss, but with due diligence to sensitivities on the issue.

Jeff

Edited for better due diligence to sensitivities