The risk was real. Jesus could have failed and suffered eternal loss.

1.If God is certain an event will occur, say X, then X is certain to occur.
2.If X is certain to occur, then there is no risk that it will not occur.

But what I'm saying is - The risks Jesus faced while here in the flesh had nothing to do with the Father knowing Jesus would succeed. Nor did it have anything to do with the fact Jesus believed He would succeed. Jesus still had to work to succeed.

T: The Scriptures present God as taking risks in general. In regards to Christ, the only way in which God could NOT have been taking a risk by sending Christ would be if there was no chance that Christ could have fallen in his conflict against Satan and temptation. Your view:

1.God was absolutely certain that Christ would succeed.
2.Therefore it was absolutely certain that Christ would succeed.
3.Therefore Christ could not have failed in His battle against Satan and temptation.

The reason I say the following is backwards - "You seen to be implying the Messianic prophecies obviously imply conditionality (even though the language employed is empathic and positive) because you believe God was uncertain Jesus would succeed." - is because I am not reasoning that because I believe God was uncertain that Jesus would succeed that it follows that conditionality is involved in the Messianic prophecies. I am reasoning that the temptations which Christ confronted were real, and that He could have fallen to them. Therefore God could not have been certain that Christ would succeed (see points 1-3 above).

M: Even Jesus, while here in the flesh, was 100% certain He was going to succeed on the cross. Not once did He express doubt about it. There was nothing conditional about the prophecies or Jesus' belief. Yet, the risks He faced were real. He could have failed. But, His success on the cross was as much a fact before and after He succeeded. None of this, however, diminishes the risks Jesus faced before He succeeded. The risk was real. Jesus could have failed and suffered eternal loss.

T: Then God could not have been certain that Christ would succeed. That's what this argument, which you said is clear, is saying:

1. If God is certain an event will occur, say X, then X is certain to occur.
2. If X is certain to occur, then there is no risk that it will not occur.

If God was certain that Christ would succeed, then it was certain that Christ would succeed, and there was no risk that He wouldn't succeed.

M: But what I'm saying is - The risks Jesus faced while here in the flesh had nothing to do with the Father knowing Jesus would succeed. Nor did it have anything to do with the fact Jesus believed He would succeed. Jesus still had to work to succeed.

T: That Jesus had to work to succeed isn't the issue. The issue is whether there was any possibility that Christ would not succeed. Or, to put it another way, did God incur any risk by sending Christ? Did God risk anything?

Just because both the Father and the Son knew for certain Jesus would succeed on the cross it doesn’t mean He couldn’t sin, fall, or fail.

No, our heavenly Father doesn’t take risks.

That’s not how He runs the Universe. He knows the end from the beginning. That’s why He can confidently tell us how the great controversy will play out. He would never have consented to the creation and redemption of mankind had He been uncertain Jesus would succeed on the cross.

This is rather a cryptic comment. Perhaps you could explain your meaning?

M: Just because both the Father and the Son knew for certain Jesus would succeed on the cross it doesn’t mean He couldn’t sin, fall, or fail.

T: Anything God knows for certain will happen, it doesn't matter what it is, will certainly happen. There's no chance the thing will not happen. It's impossible for it not to happen. If a thing will certainly happen, there's no chance that it won't happen. Where's the difficulty here?

I doubt you will be able to clarify the mathematical model for how God relates to His creation.

This is rather a cryptic comment. Perhaps you could explain your meaning?

Yes, you seem to be discussing Gods omniscience using statistical terms..

Tom, you believe Jesus could have sinned, could have failed - even though He possessed no evil propensities.

He feared he would be forever lost.

[quote]Believers know with absolute certainty they will inherit heaven.

. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried." Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.) {COL 155.1}

Knowing so, however, does not eliminate the risks they face daily.

Or, do you believe Jesus did not know ahead of time with absolute certainty He would succeed on the cross? If so, where did he say so?