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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12745
03/12/05 08:47 PM
03/12/05 08:47 PM
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Greetings Brother Mike,
We are told: quote:
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Matthew 6:19-24.
quote:
There is nothing that Satan fears so much as that the people of God shall clear the way by removing every hindrance, so that the Lord can pour out His Spirit upon a languishing church and an impenitent congregation. If Satan had his way, there would never be another awakening, great or small, to the end of time. But we are not ignorant of his devices. It is possible to resist his power. When the way is prepared for the Spirit of God, the blessing will come. Satan can no more hinder a shower of blessing from descending upon God's people than he can close the windows of heaven that rain cannot come upon the earth. Wicked men and devils cannot hinder the work of God, or shut out His presence from the assemblies of His people, if they will, with subdued, contrite hearts, confess and put away their sins, and in faith claim His promises. Every temptation, every opposing influence, whether open or secret, may be successfully resisted, "not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts" (Zech. 4:6). {1SM 124.2}
We are preparing for the return of the Lord, but before this we must be prepare to receive the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. At this time, like those Brethren and Sisters in the upper room, the children of the Lord will be renounced of self. I truly believe this means that temptation will not have a hold, just as it did not have a hold on our Savior!
Your question:
quote:
Just because we are tempted by it again does that mean we haven't actually overcome it?
While we may yet hear temptation there comes a time it will not mean anything to us if we love the Lord. Our work today is to continue to learn to deny self in all aspects of our faithful walk with Christ.
If temptation holds something in our hearts causing us to ponder it, then the temptation has a hold on us and we must go before the Lord, with fasting and praying to ask God to show you have to remove the tare of our hearts.
Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12746
03/12/05 09:22 PM
03/12/05 09:22 PM
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quote:
Mike Lowe posted: "Instead, the example of Jesus is a demonstration of what life is like when born again believers are connected to the Father, when they continue to partake of the divine nature."
I am not questioning whether or not Jesus as a baby was connected to the Father, I am just asking how Jesus, as a baby, was connected to the Father?
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12747
03/13/05 02:10 AM
03/13/05 02:10 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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So which camp do you belong to Mike?
God Bless,
Will
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12748
03/13/05 08:44 AM
03/13/05 08:44 AM
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Greetings Brother Daryl,
The first connection that any child has with the Heavenly Father is through the mother. The mother has a great role in life. She will be the very first avenue.
Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12749
03/13/05 12:41 PM
03/13/05 12:41 PM
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Are you saying then that Jesus was connected to the Father through Mary, the mother?
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12750
03/13/05 02:23 PM
03/13/05 02:23 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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"Connected" is an odd term to use, but Jesus was "connected" to His Father by faith. Of course, as an infant, He had the faith of an infant. We know that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to work with infants, even in the womb, from the experience of John the Baptist. quote:
It is a mystery that is left unexplained to mortals that Christ could be tempted in all points like as we are, and yet be without sin. (13MR 19)
It is probably prudent for us not to speculate too much regarding Christ's infancy/very young childhood, but we can assert the following:
1) Christ was tempted as all are tempted.
2) He did not sin.
3) He did not use any means to overcome which are not available to us.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12751
03/14/05 12:11 AM
03/14/05 12:11 AM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Mike wrote.
There seems to be a lot of people who believe it is not possible to completely overcome sin before Jesus returns. So, what about it? Are they right? Is it possible to overcome all of our defects before the close of probation, or before we are changed in the twinkling of an eye? If not, why not? But if so, when can we expect to experience freedom from sin?
Unquote.
My view in regards of this question.
It is by grace we are saved through faith.
We are justified by our faith in Christ without the deeds of the law (Romans 3:20-22), because the law could not justify us due to the weakness of our flesh (Romans 8:3).
God justifying us for our faith in Christ without the deeds of the law taking into account, means it is by his grace we are justified thanks to our faith, and not our deeds, even though there is a law as a standard of judgment and righteousness.
This means, against the law, we are not perfect, therefore, the law could not justify us unto life. But the grace of God still justify us unto heaven for eternal life, which is against the righteousness of his law, that demands our life. But thanks to Christ, as our Mediator, his blood forgives our sins, and we stand before God as righteous as we never sinned, covered by the righteous blood of Christ, covered by his righteousness.
So, I my self think, that to stand before God at one time all alone in our self righteousness, is something impossible. We still need the grace of God, even until the door of probation close.
After the closing of probation, we remain in his grace, in Christ righteousness and not in our own, but we could no longer sin, for we are already destined to be lift up to heaven. How does it works, even we still have our own will and Satan is working fully hard to deceive us? Maybe by God protecting us against temptation, Satan is no longer allowed to temp us, and our own will is perfected by the Holy Spirit to do what the Spirit wants, or maybe because at that time we fully understood the love of God and our hearts willfully follows the Spirit.
In His love
James S
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12752
03/14/05 12:14 AM
03/14/05 12:14 AM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Tom wrote:
It's God's job to perfect us. It's not something we accomplish by our effort, but something God does -- if we do not interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace.
Unquote.
I agree! Does this means that perfection and sinless is a state that depends to our choice? If so, is a sinless and perfect life possible before the closing of probation?
In His love
James S
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12753
03/14/05 02:37 AM
03/14/05 02:37 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Regarding the post to Mike, to justify means to "set right" as in justifying text so that it lines up. Because by nature we are not in harmony with God, it stands to reason that no amount of effort will result in our setting ourselves right. God must set us right, which He does by faith. But once we are set right, we have been set right, meaning we are in harmony with the law, because the law is the standard by which one judges what being set right means.
It's possible to say the same thing without reference to the law. Before one knows Christ, one is alienated in one's mind. But the blood of Christ reconciles us, because in seeing the character of God revealed we are brought into harmony with Him. The law is written in the heart, meaning it becomes our desire to do His will. We are justified, set right.
Regarding perfection, I think it is possible for us to be like Christ before the close of probation. The similarity is not on the basis of personal effort, but of faith, resulting in our seeing Christ as He really is as we grow in understanding how good the Good News is.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12754
03/14/05 04:31 AM
03/14/05 04:31 AM
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Certainly those saints who will be alive after the close of probation will have ceased sinning totally. Revelation 22:11,12 --
11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be." All cases are set for good or evil in verse 11, and this is shortly before Jesus returns. So in the time between, the saints don't sin at all, in thought, word, or deed. That doesn't mean they don't need Jesus any more. It's true that they won't need forgiveness any more; indeed there won't be any forgiveness available at that time since Jesus will have finished His heavenly high priestly ministry. BUT they will still need the sustaining power of the Holy Spirit to see them through, so there will still be need of a Savior. Character isn't changed when Jesus returns: "When He comes He is not to cleanse us of our sins, to remove from us the defects in our characters, or to cure us of the infirmities of our tempers and dispositions. If wrought for us at all, this work will all be accomplished before that time. When the Lord comes, those who are holy will be holy still. Those who have preserved their bodies and spirits in holiness, in sanctification and honor, will then receive the finishing touch of immortality. But those who are unjust, unsanctified, and filthy will remain so forever. No work will then be done for them to remove their defects and give them holy characters. The Refiner does not then sit to pursue His refining process and remove their sins and their corruption. This is all to be done in these hours of probation. It is now that this work is to be accomplished for us."
{2T 355.1} As for when people can or will become perfect: EGW wrote that some were mighty close in her day: "Be ambitious, for the Master's glory, to cultivate every grace of character. In every phase of your character building you are to please God. This you may do; for Enoch pleased Him though living in a degenerate age. And there are Enochs in this our day."
{COL 332.1} There's no reason to think that there aren't some people approaching that standard even now.
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