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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12775
03/20/05 06:08 PM
03/20/05 06:08 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
It's nice to think that God is the focus, but in reality, mankind has been the focus from the beginning.
Isn't the Great Controversy about God?
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12776
03/20/05 07:53 PM
03/20/05 07:53 PM
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OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"For God so loved the world ..." John 3:16.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12777
03/20/05 10:07 PM
03/20/05 10:07 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Isn't the Great Controversy about God?
Yes, the great controversy is about God, because of what sin did and does to our hearts and minds, regarding our view of God. It is this deception of sin which holds man in bondage to sin. Thus to break this stronghold of sin; faith is the victory that overcomes the world. Genuine faith looks at God in the face of Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave us his son that we might see him as he is.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12778
03/20/05 10:15 PM
03/20/05 10:15 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
Does genuine faith enable us to live without committing known sins? If so, how does it work? If not, why not? Will an unconquered, uncrucified defective trait of character keep us out of heaven?
The above questions are contradictory to genuine faith's perspective.
Genuine faith does not think in terms of ‘not committing known sins’. In genuine faith, one has ceased “trying to overcome”; ceased “trying to improve one self”. Genuine faith does not think in terms of sins and defects. Genuine faith lays all of that down at the feet of the Saviour, and says not my will but thine.
Genuine faith does not keep a vigil on the sinful tree for unwanted fruit, and try to keep it plucked free of the fruit of sin. Genuine faith accepts the axe at the root of the tree.
It is a new tree which bears fruit of righteousness. It is a tree of not I but Christ. And if it is “not I” then we cannot look at "I" but we must look at "him" who is the author and finisher of our faith.
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. So therefore where there is genuine faith there is no sin. Genuine faith is wholly taken up with him who is its object.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12779
03/20/05 10:47 PM
03/20/05 10:47 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
It's nice to think that God is the focus, but in reality, mankind has been the focus from the beginning. Jesus is the means of our salvation, but our salvation is the means to an end - that is, the end of the great controversy. We cannot ignore ourselves and focus only on God. We must work out our own "salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12. Of course, the only way we can do this is by staying connected to Jesus. But we cannot overlook our works and behaviour. Getting it right is everything.
Mike: Jesus is the means of our salvation, but our salvation is the means to an end - that is, the end of the great controversy.
John: Our salvation brings to an end the controversy of sin’s deception in our hearts and minds, regarding God and righteousness. So that God may dwell in us by his spirit.
Mike: We cannot ignore ourselves and focus only on God.
John: We must take our eyes off of ourselves and focus only on God.
Mike: We must work out our own "salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12.
John: Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. God works in us (gives us) the life, we live it. We do not make the life. Faith is dynamic and living.
Mike: Of course, the only way we can do this is by staying connected to Jesus.
John: How can you keep your eyes on him, if you cannot ignore yourself?
Mike: But we cannot overlook our works and behaviour.
John: How long do you have to look at that which is dead, your corpse?
Mike: Getting it right is everything.
John: So true!
Psa 121:3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
Psa 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Psa 121:5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.
Psa 121:6 The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.
Psa 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psa 121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12780
03/21/05 12:08 AM
03/21/05 12:08 AM
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OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Amen! It is possible to reflect the glory of God in our lives. "Thou shalt not ..." becomes "Not I but Christ."
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12781
03/21/05 02:02 AM
03/21/05 02:02 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Yes, the great controversy is about God, because of what sin did and does to our hearts and minds, regarding our view of God. It is this deception of sin which holds man in bondage to sin. Thus to break this stronghold of sin; faith is the victory that overcomes the world. Genuine faith looks at God in the face of Christ. For God so loved the world that he gave us his son that we might see him as he is.
I found this to be moving, John, especially the marked sentence. It reminded me of this verse (which may be where you got the idea from):
quote:
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 4:6)
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12782
03/21/05 02:23 PM
03/21/05 02:23 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Romans 4
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about–but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
The bible agrees, nothing we do will earn us a doorpass to the heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus has done it all and He gives us all that we need when we seek/ask Him.
/Thomas
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12783
03/22/05 04:17 AM
03/22/05 04:17 AM
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OP
SDA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Everyone seems to agree we cannot work our way into heaven, but do you also agree we can work our way out? That is, do bad works keep us out? Lucifer's rebellion got him booted out, and Adam's sin got him kicked out. So, how is it that works have nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven?
I believe it is clear we can sin our way out of heaven, which means we must cease sinning in order to get in. If, by the grace of God, we crucify all of our defective traits of character, save one, if we REFUSE to crucify even one pet, darling sin, it is enough to keep us out of heaven.
If we deliberately REFUSE to crucify our favorite sin it is evidence that whatever defects we think we have crucified really aren't dead and buried. We cannot selfishly hold on to a cherished sin AND expect God to empower us to overcome the others. Whatever victories we experience, if we have cherished sins, are self generated, not God empowered. As such, we are unfit for heaven.
Which begs the question - Are goods works required in order to survive judgment? in order to enter heaven?
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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns!
#12784
03/21/05 05:50 PM
03/21/05 05:50 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Could Lucifers sin have been a thought of "i can do this better than God"? Was Adams sin failiure to trust God? Was his thought "there is more to life than what God has thaught us"? If so, wouldnt these thouhts be the sins and the following actions responces to these? Faith in God leads to a responce of accepting and doing His will. Distrust in God leads to everything else we can see thats not of God.
/Thomas
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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