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Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12765
03/19/05 03:03 AM
03/19/05 03:03 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Because breaking the sabbath unwittingly isn't a defective trait of character. In order to develop a sinful trait of character it is necessary to repeatedly do something you know is wrong, you must violate your convictions and conscience. That's why it's impossible for a born again believer to possess an unknown defective trait of character.

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12766
03/19/05 03:34 AM
03/19/05 03:34 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Why use the word "unknown"? It seems to me you are using a tautological definition of your phrase, so that your assertion says nothing.

That is, you say something which you do unknowingly is not a defect of character, since it's unknown. So it's not only impossible for a Christian to have an unknown defect of character, it's impossible for a non-Christian, or a Martian, or anyone or anything else, to have an unknown defect of character, because such a thing is equivalent to a square circle.

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12767
03/18/05 10:47 PM
03/18/05 10:47 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Mike

Are you aware of all your sins and shortcommings?

/Thomas

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12768
03/19/05 01:25 AM
03/19/05 01:25 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, my point precisely. The difference before and after rebirth is that born again believers have been shown their defects in light of the cross.

Thomas, since you have specified "sins and shortcomings" I can honestly answer, Yes and No. Yes, the Holy Spirit has revealed to me my shortcomings, and by the grace of God I have victory (i.e., when I'm connected to Jesus). No, I cannot say for certain that God has revealed all my sins of ignorance.

Again, a sin of ignorance is not a defective trait of character. What is the difference?

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12769
03/20/05 03:23 AM
03/20/05 03:23 AM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Hi! Though I’m a rare contributor here I often follow through my husband. I felt I just had to say something here. We are saved by faith not by character. It is faith at the beginning, faith all the way through and faith which is the cord that grows larger and carries us over the chasm to the promised land. Faith focuses on the Lord not on ourselves. Faith knows that we can do nothing of ourselves. Faith is the walk of childlike trust that grows and learns. Faith is dynamic which means that in our walk with God we learn and grow and change (thank God) and it is as we maintain that humility and teachableness, the Lord counts us His children and guides and disciplines us. In the walk by faith there is joy and peace and victory. Faith is the victory!

Deborah Boskovic

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12770
03/19/05 05:11 PM
03/19/05 05:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Deborah, thank you for sharing. And, I think I speak for everyone here when I say, Amen! We are saved based on faith in the shed blood of Jesus. Saving faith is like a tree planted by the rivers of water, bearing the fruit of the Spirit, unto the honor and glory of God.

But, would you agree there is a kind of "faith" that does not result in salvation? that does not yield the peaceable fruits of godliness? If so, then how might we identify it and avoid it? How can we tell if our faith is the genuine article? What is character? and what part does it play in judgment?

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12771
03/19/05 07:29 PM
03/19/05 07:29 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Yes, there is a belief which is not unto salvation, but it is not faith, it is belief. People often use the words interchangeably but they are very different. We can believe many ‘things’ or ‘truths’ about God and we may call that “faith”, including a belief in the shed blood of Jesus. Others may look at us and think we are “good Christians” but in our inmost heart we know if we walk by faith or belief. True faith is a relationship in which we have been saved from the power of sin and know it. We have been made a child of God and know it. We have God as our Father, Jesus as our indwelling helper and know it.

Character is only significant as it is revealed in this walk of faith. Only you and God and the people who live with you will know the victories you gain by faith. They cannot be hidden under a bushel. You and they will know whether you are humble and growing. Character is revealed through faith. We will only be judged by our lack of faith not by the degree of fruit. Remember the parable of the talents; whether we have 1 or 5 or 10 it is faithfulness that the Lord seeks.

Deborah Boskovic

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12772
03/19/05 08:24 PM
03/19/05 08:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Again, amen! Does genuine faith enable us to live without committing known sins? If so, how does it work? If not, why not? Will an unconquered, uncrucified defective trait of character keep us out of heaven?

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12773
03/20/05 10:16 AM
03/20/05 10:16 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
And suddenly this isnt about us anymore but the focal point has moved where it should have been all the time, on God and all He has done for our salvation.

/Thomas

Re: It is impossible to completely overcome before Jesus returns! #12774
03/21/05 03:44 AM
03/21/05 03:44 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It's nice to think that God is the focus, but in reality, mankind has been the focus from the beginning. Jesus is the means of our salvation, but our salvation is the means to an end - that is, the end of the great controversy. We cannot ignore ourselves and focus only on God. We must work out our own "salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12. Of course, the only way we can do this is by staying connected to Jesus. But we cannot overlook our works and behaviour. Getting it right is everything.

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