Hi Thomas,
I believe their is a miscommunication between you and Mike. You are both saying the same thing. You see it Jesus told the woman to 'sin no more' He meant that, and I believe that when Jesus speaks things happen, so it wasn't the womans strength, but His will.
Thats how the Bible tells us that we can oversome. He will save us to the uttermost, make us more than conquerors, and it is in Christ that we can do all things because He strengthens us.
My 2¢
God Bless,
Will

Is Will rigth in what he says Mike?

/Thomas

If salvation is by faith, then, of course, condemnation is by unbelief. And that's exactly what Scripture teaches:

quote:

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He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)

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How could it be otherwise?

Yes, I agree with Will's assessment.

quote:

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Which begs the question - Are goods works required in order to survive judgment? in order to enter heaven?

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Do we have to obey the law of God to get in heaven? Or, does our obedience have anything to do with it?

Mike (penultimate post): Everyone seems to agree we cannot work our way into heaven.

Mike (next post): Do we have to obey the law of God to get in heaven?

These two ideas seem to me to be contradictory. If we agree we cannot work our way into heaven, then how could it be said we must obey the law of God to get in heaven? Wouldn't that be working our way in?

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There is not a point that needs to be dwelt upon more earnestly, repeated more frequently, or established more firmly in the minds of all than the impossibility of fallen man meriting anything by his own best good works. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (FW 18)

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Actually your question is sort of like this one: Did you recently stop beating your wife? No good answer.

If stated as you did, the answer has to be "no" because "to get into" implies merit. However if you asked, "Will all those who are in heaven be obedient to the law?" or "Will all those in heaven have characters in harmony with the law?" then the answer is "yes."

Mike

You say that you agree with what Will wrote, yet I cannot help sencing some heistation, a "but" or an "if"..

Can you both keep your cake and eat it? Are we unable to merit anything for our salvation or are we judged on what we have done? Can we have it both ways?

What we do with the resources we get from the storehouses of Heaven isnt unimportant but here we are still talking about how to get into the city in the first place. Would I be wrong if I pointed out that all the "management parables" and teachings where directed towards those who where allready chosen and who had accpeted Jesus by faith. The people Paul, John and Peter wrote to encouraging to be perfect as the Father is perfect they in the next breath called saints or beloved. Surely they would not call people whos names they didnt think where written in the book of life "saints"?

/Thomas

Tom, another way of wording the question is, Can we refuse to obey the law of God and make it into heaven? I suspect most of us here would answer, No. Which begs the question, Is obedience necessary to survive judgment, to get into heaven? The most obvious answer is, Yes.

Since God requires obedience, it is wrong to assume it has anything to do with working our way to heaven. It is because God requires obedience that Jesus gave His life on the cross. He lived and died to earn the right to pardon past sins confessed and forsaken, and to empower us to obey the law, to live in harmony with the will of God.

If we refuse to cooperate with the plan of salvation, and do our part to obey the law, then most assuredly we will be lost.

FW 95, 96
While we are to be in harmony with God's law, we are not saved by the works of the law, yet we cannot be saved without obedience. The law is the standard by which character is measured. But we cannot possibly keep the commandments of God without the regenerating grace of Christ. Jesus alone can cleanse us from all sin. He does not save us by law, neither will He save us in disobedience to law. {FW 95.3}

PP 279
By obedience the people were to give evidence of their faith. So all who hope to be saved by the merits of the blood of Christ should realize that they themselves have something to do in securing their salvation. While it is Christ only that can redeem us from the penalty of transgression, we are to turn from sin to obedience. Man is to be saved by faith, not by works; yet his faith must be shown by his works. God has given His Son to die as a propitiation for sin, He has manifested the light of truth, the way of life, He has given facilities, ordinances, and privileges; and now man must co-operate with these saving agencies; he must appreciate and use the helps that God has provided--believe and obey all the divine requirements. {PP 279.1}

FW 94
He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. Man cannot be saved without obedience, but his works should not be of himself; Christ should work in him to will and to do of His good pleasure. If a man could save himself by his own works, he might have something in himself in which to rejoice. The effort that man makes in his own strength to obtain salvation is represented by the offering of Cain. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin; but that which is wrought through faith is acceptable to God. When we seek to gain heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress. "Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith," we may go on from strength to strength, from victory to victory; for through Christ the grace of God has worked out our complete salvation. {FW 94.1}

FW 48
In one way we are thrown upon our own energies; we are to strive earnestly to be zealous and to repent, to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts from every defilement; we are to reach the highest standard, believing that God will help us in our efforts. We must seek if we would find, and seek in faith; we must knock, that the door may be opened unto us. The Bible teaches that everything regarding our salvation depends upon our own course of action. If we perish, the responsibility will rest wholly upon ourselves. If provision has been made, and if we accept God's terms, we may lay hold on eternal life. We must come to Christ in faith, we must be diligent to make our calling and election sure. {FW 48.2}

TM 240
The Lord does not propose to perform for us either the willing or the doing. This is our proper work. As soon as we earnestly enter upon the work, God's grace is given to work in us to will and to do, but never as a substitute for our effort. Our souls are to be aroused to cooperate. The Holy Spirit works the human agent, to work out our own salvation. This is the practical lesson the Holy Spirit is striving to teach us. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." {TM 240.2}

Aren't the wicked the ones who are judged?
God Bless,
Will

Yes, but the righteous are judged before the close of probation. It's called the investigative judgment, and it's been going on, for the dead, since 1844. It will progress to include the living during the MOB crisis.

I do realize that an Investigative Judgment is occurring in heaven, and that based on that the righteous will be rewarded according to what they have done. I was trying to figure out if the judgment of the wicked cause they have already been deemed wicked was any different to that of the righteous.
God Bless,
Will