Tom, how do we measure time? It is based solely on earth's revolution on its axis and its path around the sun? Or, does it include our heart beats? For example, pretend people are in a spacecraft speeding away from earth into space. How would they measure time?

The important thing is that events which occur do so sequentially. That is, it makes sense to say that Event A occurred before Event B, which occurred by before Event C, and so forth. Also it's important to note that this is true for God as well.

Section 9 - The Relativity of Simultaneity

Up to now our considerations have been referred to a particular body of reference, which we have styled a " railway embankment." We suppose a very long train travelling along the rails with the constant velocity v and in the direction indicated in Fig 1. People travelling in this train will with a vantage view the train as a rigid reference-body (co-ordinate system); they regard all events in



reference to the train. Then every event which takes place along the line also takes place at a particular point of the train. Also the definition of simultaneity can be given relative to the train in exactly the same way as with respect to the embankment. As a natural consequence, however, the following question arises :

Are two events (e.g. the two strokes of lightning A and B) which are simultaneous with reference to the railway embankment also simultaneous relatively to the train? We shall show directly that the answer must be in the negative.

When we say that the lightning strokes A and B are simultaneous with respect to be embankment, we mean: the rays of light emitted at the places A and B, where the lightning occurs, meet each other at the mid-point M of the length A arrow B of the embankment. But the events A and B also correspond to positions A and B on the train. Let M ' be the mid-point of the distance A arrow B on the travelling train. Just when the flashes (as judged from the embankment) of lightning occur, this point M ' naturally coincides with the point M but it moves towards the right in the diagram with the velocity v of the train. If an observer sitting in the position M ' in the train did not possess this velocity, then he would remain permanently at M, and the light rays emitted by the flashes of lightning A and B would reach him simultaneously, i.e. they would meet just where he is situated. Now in reality (considered with reference to the railway embankment) he is hastening towards the beam of light coming from B, whilst he is riding on ahead of the beam of light coming from A. Hence the observer will see the beam of light emitted from B earlier than he will see that emitted from A. Observers who take the railway train as their reference-body must therefore come to the conclusion that the lightning flash B took place earlier than the lightning flash A. We thus arrive at the important result:

Events which are simultaneous with reference to the embankment are not simultaneous with respect to the train, and vice versa (relativity of simultaneity). Every reference-body (co-ordinate system) has its own particular time ; unless we are told the reference-body to which the statement of time refers, there is no meaning in a statement of the time of an event.

Now before the advent of the theory of relativity it had always tacitly been assumed in physics that the statement of time had an absolute significance, i.e. that it is independent of the state of motion of the body of reference. But we have just seen that this assumption is incompatible with the most natural definition of simultaneity; if we discard this assumption, then the conflict between the law of the propagation of light in vacuo and the principle of relativity (developed in Section 7) disappears.

We were led to that conflict by the considerations of Section 6, which are now no longer tenable. In that section we concluded that the man in the carriage, who traverses the distance w per second relative to the carriage, traverses the same distance also with respect to the embankment in each second of time. But, according to the foregoing considerations, the time required by a particular occurrence with respect to the carriage must not be considered equal to the duration of the same occurrence as judged from the embankment (as reference-body). Hence it cannot be contended that the man in walking travels the distance w relative to the railway line in a time which is equal to one second as judged from the embankment.

Moreover, the considerations of Section 6 are based on yet a second assumption, which, in the light of a strict consideration, appears to be arbitrary, although it was always tacitly made even before the introduction of the theory of relativity.

T:The important thing is that events which occur do so sequentially. That is, it makes sense to say that Event A occurred before Event B, which occurred by before Event C, and so forth. Also it's important to note that this is true for God as well.

A:Actually, that is false for us.

So, if the sequence of events is variable for mere men, it is not inconceivable to conclude that it can be variable to God as well.

God occupies all reference frames. For God, as well as man, a person is born, then lives, then dies.

T:God occupies all reference frames. For God, as well as man, a person is born, then lives, then dies.

a:But God, unlike men, knows who will be born (Isaac), who will live (Paul), and who will die (Methuselah). He knows, not just has a good idea about, the end from the beginning.

Plus, knowing every possible outcome, even combined with the probabilities of each outcome, does not constitute prophecy. That's just being really good at statistics.

So it is your belief that the future already exists? That's an interesting idea. What does this mean?

I've said that God knows the character of those involved, whether persons or nations, and reasons from cause to effect, as well as having perfect powers of visualization.

T:So it is your belief that the future already exists? That's an interesting idea. What does this mean?

M:There is a huge difference between how FMAs relate to the future and how God relates to the future. We do not possess the ability to exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously.

We are limited to experiencing time and space in the present.

God, however, possesses the supernatural ability to exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously.

He knows the future like history, which means everything has already played out. He knows the facts after the fact.

T:I've said that God knows the character of those involved, whether persons or nations, and reasons from cause to effect, as well as having perfect powers of visualization.

M:As it relates to endtime events, using your view of the future, how can you say God knows exactly who will be born in the future, exactly which choices they will make, exactly which traits of character they will cultivate, and that they will legislate and enforce Sunday laws?

In light of the other thread, if God's knows everyone before they are born, knows their choices, knows their character, does it mean He also knows the sins they will commit?