If multi-threaded means it can play out in different ways, but yet God knows which way it plays out, then wouldn't it be playing out in one way, that is, single-threaded? I think what you are trying to say is that all the following could be true but you chose one of them to be true:

• Single threaded - God does not know the future.
• Single threaded - God does know the future.
• Multi-threaded - God does not know the future.
• Multi-threaded - God does know the future.

I didn't follow where you say that you believe it does make a difference that God knows the future like history and then you say His knowing does not alter nor changes nothing.

Tom, do you believe God is everywhere simultaneously? If so, does it mean space does not exist? And, does it mean God is an immaterial (non-physical) entity? Or, do you believe God can only be in one place at a time? If so, in what sense is He omnipresent?

Can time and space exist independent of one another? Or, are they inseparably tied together?

By "class of people" do you mean God does not know hundreds of years in advance specifically who will legislate and enforce Sunday laws?

Kland, do you believe God exists everywhere simultaneously? If so, why don't you believe God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously? Do you believe time and space exist, function independently?

I realize you believe I have no reason to believe God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously without making the future single-threaded. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. I would be interested in why you think God knew 300 hundred years in advance Josiah would do what he did. See passage below.

1 Kings
13:1 And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense.
13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

2 Kings
23:15 Moreover the altar that [was] at Bethel, [and] the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, [and] stamped [it] small to powder, and burned the grove.
23:16 And as Josiah turned himself, he spied the sepulchres that [were] there in the mount, and sent, and took the bones out of the sepulchres, and burned [them] upon the altar, and polluted it, according to the word of the LORD which the man of God proclaimed, who proclaimed these words.

I believe God is omnipresent. I don't think saying "simultaneously" adds anything.



Time would not exist if the past, present and future were simultaneous. You're really mixing things up here (I'm meaning, mixing different concepts together). If you want to come up with a space analogy, "simultaneous" isn't the way to go about that. It would be a bit tricky, but it would have to involve something analogous, like saying that all of space exists in only one point. So if you made an assertion which was equivalent to that, then one could rightly conclude that space does not exist.



What is "it"?



God is everywhere at one moment of time, and then everywhere in the next moment of time.



He is omnipresent in the sense that at any point in time He is everywhere.



It really depends upon how you define things. But, in terms of our discussion, they key point I've been making is that events are sequential, and this is true for God as well.



He knows all the possible ways this can happen. For example, as early as 1859 EGW wrote that Christ could have come. Had He come then, God knows how this would have happened. Christ could have come in the 1888 era. Things were actually starting to happen then, and God knew what would have happened. Similarly for any time when it was or has been or will be possible for Christ's coming.

Here's a response to the 1 Kings 13/2 Kings 23 passages:

The Lord proclaims against the pagan alter of Jeroboam, “O altar, altar, thus says the Lord: ‘A son shall be born to the house of David, Josiah by name; and he shall sacrifice on you the priests of the high places who offer incense on you, and human bones shall be burned on you.’ He gave a sign the same day, saying, ‘This is the sign that the Lord has spoken: The altar shall be torn down, and the ashes that are on it shall be poured out.’” (Cf. 2 Kings 22:1; 23:15–16)

The Lord was growing impatient with the ever-increasing idolatrous practices of the Israelites. He therefore decreed that it would come to a violent end in a subsequent generation by a descendant of the house of David. As a proof that Yahweh, not an idol, is the sovereign Lord of history, Yahweh surrounded this predetermined destruction with certain prophetic signs. He told the Israelites ahead of time how this destruction would occur and even the name of the one who would initiate it: Josiah (meaning, “Yahweh supports”).

The passage clearly expresses that at this point God had resolved to control, and thus foreknow, certain aspects of the future. But the passage does not suggest that everything about the future is foreknown as a settled fact, or even that the portion that would come to pass (which the Lord at this point foreknew) was always foreknown by God.

It is important to keep in mind that the sovereign Lord of history can determine whatever he wants to about the future and thus foreknow it. He wisely balances the freedom he grants his human subjects with his providential control as he guides the world to achieve his overall objectives. Thus, for example, though Josiah’s father Amon remained free in other respects, he was apparently not free to choose any name other than “Josiah” for his son, for this had been divinely determined. And though Josiah remained a free agent, at least one thing about his future was absolutely certain: he would destroy the pagan altar and end the pagan priesthood that had been plaguing Israel.

Many people who are accustomed to the classical view of divine foreknowledge initially have difficulty with the notion of a partly settled and partly open future. It seems to them that it must be all one way or the other. This is why they are inclined to interpret biblical passages which depict God as knowing some definite things about the future as providing evidence that God has exhaustive definite knowledge of the future.

As we argued earlier, however, neither the Bible nor our experience supports such an all-or-nothing attitude. The biblical accounts that depict God as knowing aspects of the future are balanced by accounts that depict God as not knowing aspects of the future. And we know from our own experience that all the free choices we make are made in the context of many other things that are already settled. We are not able to choose the initial circumstances of our life, our basic physical make up and personality, and a number of things that happen to us along life’s way. But within this determined context there are many things we can choose—such as how we will respond to these factors that are outside of our control.

For this reason we ought to have little trouble affirming that God could control and foreknow that a future king named Josiah would destroy paganism in the land without concluding that everything about the future is settled and that God eternally knows it as such. To return to the chess analogy, the sovereign, supremely intelligent, cosmic chessmaster has declared, “In no more than seven moves I shall take your bishop.” You can of course still move however you wish. But this much of the future game has already been decided.

Whether God exists or not in the past, present, and future simultaneously isn't what I'm asking. I'm trying to figure out what you mean by multi-threaded when what you describe doesn't match what you define it to be. Am I to assume I am correct in you agree that all four possibilities I listed are possible, just that you believe one is reality?

Would it follow that Christ could not have come before then? Meaning He knew some things weren't possible, others were, but the future is multi-threaded which can play out in different ways. It ended up turning out in a different way than the way in which He would come. Which God couldn't have known, or He couldn't have come then. (Don't know how to word that last as it could be ambiguous. I mean it that, Ellen White wouldn't have been saying He could have come if He knew He wasn't)

Not sure what you're asking here.



Yes, regarding the last sentence. I think that's exactly what that means.

I'm talking about space - not time. Please reread my comments and questions thus far (this post). How can God be everywhere at once? Is He everywhere at once throughout the Universe? Or, just on earth?


By "it" I mean the fact God is omnipresent. Since God is everywhere at once does it mean He is non-physical? Otherwise, how can He be physically present everywhere at once? Such a physical presence would prevent sunlight from reaching the planet, and anything else on earth from moving around.


So, according to your view, God is limited to experiencing time like us. Is that correct?


I'm not sure how your response answers my question. Are you saying God does not know exactly who (the actual individuals) will be involved in legislating and enforcing Sunday laws, and that He doesn't precisely when it will happen?

I know, and your question didn't make sense, which I was trying to explain. That is, you asked, "If so, does it mean space does not exist?" Your thinking, in asking this question, was that if what I said was true, that time would not exist if the past, present and future existed simultaneously, then why wouldn't the same be true of space. But for this question to make sense, you'd have to have something analogous to simultaneality, for want of a better term, that would apply to space, as well as some way of linking space that would be analogous to how time is linked.



Everywhere.



Not necessarily. The atmosphere, which is physical, exists, and it doesn't prevent sunlight from reaching the planet. However, John 4 tells us that God is a spirit (or "God is spirit").



No. I've said that God experiences time, and His communications to us reflect this.



If Christ could have come at different times, then there could not be one time when Christ could come. That would be a contradiction. If there is not one specific time when Christ can come, then God cannot know that as a fact. God can only know as facts things that are facts.

So is it a fact that Christ could have come before now? If so, then God knew that. So God knows all the times that Christ could/can possibly come.