They severed their connection because they believed the serpent's words and their confidence in God was shaken. This is the same thing Satan tried to do with Christ:

"Satan thus hoped to shake the confidence of Christ in his Father, who had permitted him to be brought into this condition of extreme suffering in the desert, where the feet of man had never trodden. The arch-enemy hoped that under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, he could urge Christ to exert his miraculous power in his own behalf, and thus take himself out of the Father's hands." {2SP 92.1}

And this is what he many times does with us. However, I think that, sometimes, our mind is just distracted.

As to the other question, if we are in Christ we are never condemned. (Although I would point out again that Ellen White says clearly that imperfection of character is sin, and that our character is imperfect.)

No, they're not just made on the basis of our DNA. There are also external forces which impact the decisions we make, which is why parental influence is so important. If DNA were the only thing that mattered, it wouldn't matter how one was raised.

Also, the Holy Spirit is able to influence the choices that newborns, or even fetuses, make.

R:Yes, leave Christ's mind out of this. What I'm asking is, Does man's fallen nature include his mind? Yes or No?
T: The flesh and the mind are two different things. The flesh, of itself, cannot act contrary to the will of God. This precludes it from including the mind, because if the mind were included, this statement would be false.

R:Here is the crux of our disagreement. Obviously the mind is included in man's nature.[/quote]

If by "nature" you mean "flesh," that's not the case, in addition to not being obvious.



Again, if "fallen nature" means "sinful flesh" (which it should), this is not the case. Just adding words like "obviously" or "of course" doesn't make this so.



No, I don't think so. I looked at the passage, and it says just I would have said had I paraphrased it.



Here's the passage:



The "flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God" means that the "lower passions" which "have their seat in the body" must be controlled by the mind. I don't see how you can get from this that the flesh incorporates more than just the body. She says that it has its "seat in the body." If anything, it would incorporate less than just the body.

The flesh is inherited through the DNA. Christ inherited the same flesh we do. The flesh can tempt us, but it cannot, of itself, act contrary to the will of God. It is controlled by the mind. The mind of Christ is the mind which says "no" to the desires of the flesh. Christ said "no" to these desires, and, in so doing, obtained the victory for the human race. We overcome by walking in the consecrated way to perfection that Christ inaugurated.

I agree with this.

Rosangela, thank you for answering my questions. I believe disconnecting from Jesus and committing a sin are two separate things but that they essentially occur simultaneously. And, as you know, I do not believe we are guilty of sin while we are abiding in Jesus.

To disconnect from Jesus, one must resist the Holy Spirit, who is constantly seek to draw our attention to Jesus Christ. So disconnecting from Jesus is itself sin.

Tom, I disagree. Unconsciously, unwittingly neglecting to abide in Jesus is not a sin. However, immediately after we neglect to abide in Jesus we end up committing a sin. The two separate things happen nearly simultaneously.

I said this happens at a very young age, by which I mean few weeks/months after birth. As children begin to interact more and more with others, they are more and more subject to external influences.

Didn't Christ assume human nature? And doesn't human nature include the mind? Or are you affirming that human nature doesn't include the mind?


What she says in the passage is that flesh = fleshly lusts = carnal lusts. She also says that the flesh embraces "the lower, corrupt nature." Are you saying that the body is in itself the corrupt nature? Fleshly lusts or carnal lusts are perverted physical habits, and a habit does involve the mind.

"He [Paul] charges the Galatians, 'Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.' He names some of the forms of fleshly lusts,-- 'idolatry, drunkenness, and such like.' And after mentioning the fruits of the Spirit, among which is temperance, he adds, 'And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts.'" {HR, November 1, 1882 par. 13}

As I pointed out, the Holy Spirit is constantly seeking to draw our attention to Christ (AA 52). Therefore to "disconnect" one must resist the Holy Spirit.

Resiting the Holy Spirit is sin.

Please note, I didn't write that "unconsciously, unwittingly neglecting to abide in Jesus is a sin," but that resisting the Holy Spirit is sin.