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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #128061
10/10/10 06:17 PM
10/10/10 06:17 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Yes. Isn't this also what you think?

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #128063
10/11/10 03:27 PM
10/11/10 03:27 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
T:Does "sinful flesh" include inherited sinful tendencies?

R:As I've said many times, character traits and tendencies are synonymous.

T:Does this mean yes? It is your position that "sinful flesh" includes defective character traits and inherited sinful tendencies?

R:Yes. Isn't this also what you think?


Since Christ took our sinful nature, would this be problematic to assert?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #128068
10/11/10 05:35 PM
10/11/10 05:35 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
What I believe is that sinful tendencies/traits are a character problem, a mind problem. All of us are born with this, but Christ wasn't.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #128070
10/11/10 07:07 PM
10/11/10 07:07 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Christ was born with sinful flesh, as we are. I asked you what constituted sinful flesh.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #128088
10/12/10 04:58 PM
10/12/10 04:58 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
What I answered was that "sinful flesh" includes the mind and, therefore, includes sinful tendencies (which are a mind/character problem), however in Christ's case His mind was free from sinful tendencies because His divine nature resided in His mind. This is our hope. When we become partakers of the divine nature, tendencies to wrong are cut away from our character.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #128094
10/12/10 06:27 PM
10/12/10 06:27 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
So you're saying that the "sinful flesh" in which Christ came is different than the "sinful flesh" which we have? And, similarly, when we're told that Christ took our sinful nature upon His sinless nature, this "sinful nature" is a different sinful nature than we have?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #128124
10/13/10 06:29 PM
10/13/10 06:29 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Yes, in one aspect - the mind. But when we are converted our sinful nature becomes similar to His - the only difference being that, in our case, this is a gradual process.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #128125
10/13/10 08:45 PM
10/13/10 08:45 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Our sinful nature doesn't change; it's static. The flesh is what it is; it can never be converted, it can never change. The flesh can only be crucified.

I wonder if anyone else has this idea, that our sinful nature changes.

That's an interesting thing about these conversations. I can get an idea of what questions to ask. For example, "Do you believe our sinful nature (or sinful flesh) is static, or that it changes?" I would never even have thought of asking this without your comment.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #128126
10/13/10 09:02 PM
10/13/10 09:02 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Our sinful nature doesn't change; it's static. The flesh is what it is; it can never be converted, it can never change. The flesh can only be crucified.

No, I don't believe that.

"Christ came to our world because he saw that men had lost the image and nature of God. He saw that they had wandered far from the path of peace and purity, and that, if left to themselves, they would never find their way back. He came with a full and complete salvation, to change our stony hearts to hearts of flesh, to change our sinful natures into his similitude, that, by being partakers of the divine nature, we might be fitted for the heavenly courts." {YI, September 9, 1897 par. 4}

"To the careless, the indifferent, the unconcerned, those standing on the precipice of ruin, Christ says: Open the door of your heart; give me entrance, and I will make you a child of God. I will transform your weak, sinful nature into the divine image, giving it beauty and perfection." {YI, November 11, 1897 par. 5}

I think, however, that some aspects will always remain on this earth, like, for instance, the need for a supernatural enmity against Satan to be implanted by the Holy Spirit in the soul.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #128128
10/13/10 09:54 PM
10/13/10 09:54 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Do you see that "sinful nature" is different than "sinful flesh"?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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