I commented on what Mike said,

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According to the GC (the book by EGW) the investigative judgment doesn't start until after someone dies or, in the case of the 144,000, after the sunday laws are enforced and before probation closes. How do you relate this information to the topic of this thread?

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You asked for the relevance of the points you brought out as the IJ, to “this topic of overcoming sin”.

My answer: I see no relevance of it to this topic. It can only relate to the living now because the dead know not anything and cannot overcome sin. And in relation to the dead overcoming sin, Christ cannot do anything about that either.

If you want to talk about judgment not relevant to this topic, then I would think that another thread would be in order.

So in reference to IJ relevant to this topic and Christ's ministry in the MHP my comments stand undaunted.

No amount of self-assessment, or goals, or ambitions, or effort will ever achieve God’s purpose for us or in us.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation is genuine real life change of heart and mind in which we are as the willing apprentices with the master, while at the same time we are the project of his work.

In order for his work to be done in us, so that we may be his workmanship, we need to allow him into our hearts and minds by genuine faith. Therefore:

The true investigative judgment, that we need to know all about, has to do with us receiving God’s judgment over ours in genuine faith today. It is only for the living. It is happening right now; and if you are not participating you have no salvation. It is us, in genuine faith, letting God search our hearts and minds, allowing him to teach us in his way. A faith which believes in salvation without the exchange of my righteousness for his does not save. We can only exchange our righteousness for his by receiving his judgment. Genuine faith surrenders our view of things so that it can view all things through his eyes and spirit.

So the investigative judgment is nothing less than us receiving the mind of Christ in every word, thought, and action. It is also nothing more than that. Investigative judgment means nothing less and nothing more than “Not I but Christ” which is genuine faith. It is not God’s magnifier over our conduct. It is God’s salvation of our hearts and minds which bears the peaceable fruit of righteousness. It is a wonderful growing experience of genuine faith. Those who receive it in this way shall never fear any judgment. They have his mind.

Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
Psa 32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

“This work is done by Jesus from the Most Holy Place, and we are to cooperate with Him in this work”

I invite all to have a blessed judgment experience with our heavenly Father.

John, what you say about the work of God in our lives now is good and true, but it isn't what the IJ is all about. The work you are referring to is not the annual day of atonement, not according to SDA theology. Jesus' work in the MHP involves blotting out the record and memory of sin, or blotting out names from the Book of Life. This began for the righteous dead in 1844, and will include the living when the sunday laws are enforced. It hasn't started for the living yet.

The way the IJ of the dead and the living relates to this thread is we must first overcome all of our defective traits of character, otherwise, our names, instead of our sins, will be blotted out of the Book of Life. Whether our case comes before God for review and investigation after we die or while we are still alive the same thing applies - our defective traits of character must be overcome. In this regard there is no difference between the dead and the living. The 144,000 are no more or no less victorious over their defective traits of character than anyone else who makes it to heaven.

Mike: The way the IJ of the dead and the living relates to this thread is we must first overcome all of our defective traits of character, otherwise, our names, instead of our sins, will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

John: How will you do it?

It seems to me that for the purpose of everyday life what John says is more urgent for us.
Isnt what John has written the method by which overcoming sin is achieved?


/Thomas

John and Thomas, neither one of you two seem to be willing to confess publicly that John's view of the IJ contradicts SDA doctrine. Why is that? Please, do the honorable thing and admit it here and now. Thank you.

Mike, that is an imperical statement.

quote:

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Mike: The way the IJ of the dead and the living relates to this thread is we must first overcome all of our defective traits of character, otherwise, our names, instead of our sins, will be blotted out of the Book of Life.

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John: How will you do it?

You answer that question and we will see if it contradicts or not.

John, regarding your position concerning perfection, sinlessness and victory over our defective traits of character, please understand that I agree with you wholeheartedly. We begin at rebirth where Jesus began at birth. We are born again morally perfect, that is, morally complete. We are not, however, born again morally mature. Like Jesus, who grew in grace morally and mentally as He matured from childhood to manhood, so too we must, and will, grow in grace and mature morally as we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

How do we make the transition from sinful and morally imperfect to sinless and morally perfect? By cooperating with the Spirit of God during the process of conversion, by confessing, in light of the cross, our defective traits of character as the Holy Spirit reveals them to us. If we keep pace with God, as He shows us our sinfulness in light of the cross, if we confess each defective trait of character as they are revealed, if we do not cling to a cherished, pet, darling sin when it is exposed, if we confess the last character defect when it is revealed - then, and only then, can we experience the miracle of rebirth. Then, and only then, will God implant in us the sinless seed, or mind, of the new man.

It is the divine implantation of the sinless seed of the mind of the new man that makes it possible for born again believers to partake of the divine nature and to imitate the sinless example of Jesus in obeying the law of God. We are reborn without our former defective traits of character. They are crucified the moment we confess our last imperfection of character during the process of conversion. We are born again dead to sin and awake to righteousness. And, so long as we abide in Christ, so long as we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, we do not and cannot commit a known sin.

We are born again, however, with our sinful nature in tact. Our sinful nature will continue to generate and communicate to our conscious minds unholy thoughts and feelings in the form of temptations. We must not confuse these tempting thoughts and feelings with our old man, our crucified traits of character. The origin of post-conversion sinful, tempting thoughts and feelings is our fallen flesh nature. Our sinful nature has, as it were, a mind and voice of its own, which we must learn to resist and reject as the voice of Satan. Jesus Himself was born with a sinful nature, which He successfully resisted from the cradle to the cross.

None of these things mean we are incapable of committing a known sin. It’s just that we will not and cannot commit a known while we are connected to Christ, while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. Since it is impossible to commit a known sin while walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man we must, therefore, stop fellowshipping in Christ in order to commit a known sin. When we disconnect ourselves from Jesus, our only source of success and victory, we in essence resurrect our old man. Once back in the mind of our old man all we can do is sin. But, repentance restores the relationship our sin severed, and we resume walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. The old man is once again crucified and buried.

Thomas, please do a word search on the EGW website on the "investigative judgment" and you will see quickly that John's view contradicts SDA doctrine. He says the investigative judgment of the living is an ongoing experience of victory over sin, and that it does not involve the dead in Christ whereas, Sister White wrote, "Both the living and the dead are to be judged 'out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works....' Soon--none know how soon--it will pass to the cases of the living." GC 486, 490.

http://www.egwtext.whiteestate.org/published-writings.html

GC 483
As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. {GC 483.1}

It is not a trivial matter of who is right or wrong. Sister White clearly teaches that our salvation depends on getting it right. "The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position and work of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs them to fill." GC 488.

2T 401, 402
The Lord is proving and testing His people. Angels of God are watching the development of character and weighing moral worth. Probation is almost ended, and you are unready. Oh, that the word of warning might burn into your souls! Get ready! get ready! Work while the day lasts, for the night cometh when no man can work. The mandate will go forth: He that is holy, let him be holy still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still. The destiny of all will be decided. A few, yes, only a few, of the vast number who people the earth will be saved unto life eternal, while the masses who have not perfected their souls in obeying the truth will be appointed to the second death. O Saviour, save the purchase of Thy blood! is the cry of my anguished heart. {2T 401.1}