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Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128141
10/14/10 03:47 PM
10/14/10 03:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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The mantle of the earth has been moving and shifting since the Flood. Earthquakes are a fact of life, as are floods, droughts, tornadoes, volcanoes, etc. Do they mean anything other than the earth is waxing old and groaning? "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." "The earth shall wax old like a garment." Ellen observed:

Quote:
There is to be such a time of trouble as there never was since there was a nation. Already nations are angry, already Satan is working with signs and lying wonders, and this will increase until the end. God will use his enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. These enemies of God are living evidences of the truth of His word; they are fulfilling that which holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. God does not forewarn His people of trifles; the repetition of caution and warnings shows that there is importance in that which was spoken. Do those who claim to want light, treat the light with the respect which is due? {PC 136}

As I hear of the terrible calamities that from week to week are taking place, I ask myself: What do these things mean? The most awful disasters are following one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces, but in them God's purpose may be read. They are one of the means by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger. {CCh 355.4}

At this time [during the flood] immense forests were buried. These have since been changed to coal, forming the extensive coal beds that now exist, and also yielding large quantities of oil. The coal and oil frequently ignite and burn beneath the surface of the earth. Thus rocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground, which sound like muffled thunder. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up. These wonderful manifestations will be more and more frequent and terrible just before the second coming of Christ and the end of the world, as signs of its speedy destruction. {PP 108.2}

The depths of the earth are the Lord's arsenal, whence were drawn weapons to be employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters gushing from the earth united with the waters from heaven to accomplish the work of desolation. Since the Flood, fire as well as water has been God's agent to destroy very wicked cities. These judgments are sent that those who lightly regard God's law and trample upon His authority may be led to tremble before His power and to confess His just sovereignty. As men have beheld burning mountains pouring forth fire and flames and torrents of melted ore, drying up rivers, overwhelming populous cities, and everywhere spreading ruin and desolation, the stoutest heart has been filled with terror and infidels and blasphemers have been constrained to acknowledge the infinite power of God. {PP 109.1}

Greater wonders than have yet been seen will be witnessed by those upon the earth a short period previous to the coming of Christ. "And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke." "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." {1SP 84.2}

The bowels of the earth were the Lord's arsenal, from which he drew forth the weapons he employed in the destruction of the old world. Waters in the bowels of the earth gushed forth, and united with the waters from heaven, to accomplish the work of destruction. Since the flood, God has used both water and fire in the earth as his agents to destroy wicked cities. {1SP 84.3}

In the day of the Lord, just before the coming of Christ, God will send lightnings from heaven in his wrath, which will unite with fire in the earth. The mountains will burn like a furnace, and will pour forth terrible streams of lava, destroying gardens and fields, villages and cities; and as they pour their melted ore, rocks and heated mud, into the rivers, will cause them to boil like a pot, and send forth massive rocks, and scatter their broken fragments upon the land with indescribable violence. Whole rivers will be dried up. The earth will be convulsed, and there will be dreadful eruptions and earthquakes everywhere. God will plague the wicked inhabitants of the earth until they are destroyed from off it. The saints are preserved in the earth in the midst of these dreadful commotions, as Noah was preserved in the ark at the time of the flood. {1SP 84.4}

Preceding the great sign of the coming of the Son of man, there will be signs and wonders in the heavens. {3MR 311.4}

I expect that during the year 1890 there will be great mortality. There will be crimes greater than any now on record. There will be weeping and lamentation and woe. During the past year, 1889, there has been brought to us almost daily the news of disasters by sea and by land--unusually destructive fires; earthquakes burying cities and villages with their inhabitants; railway accidents most terrible; tornadoes and floods that destroyed an immense amount of property, including the terrible Johnstown and Williamsport floods, which destroyed more than two thousand lives. {3MR 312.1}

The disasters of the past year in America have caused hearts to tremble, and similar disasters have fallen upon other countries. Already sprinklings from the vials of God's wrath have been let fall upon land and sea, affecting the elements of the air. The causes of these unusual conditions are being searched for, but in vain. {3MR 312.2}

God has not restrained the powers of darkness from carrying forward their deadly work of vitiating the air, one of the sources of life and nutrition, with a deadly miasma. Not only is vegetable life affected, but man suffers from pestilences. Cholera and unexplainable diseases have broken out. Diphtheria, raging to a limited extent, is gathering its harvest of precious little ones, and seems to be almost uncontrollable. {3MR 312.3}

These things are the result of drops from the vials of God's wrath being sprinkled on the earth, and are but faint representations of what will be in the near future. Earthquakes in various places have been felt, but these disturbances have been very limited. This year we may expect to have more. During the year that has just closed, whole cities have become nearly extinct. Thousands of people have been buried in the bowels of the earth. Premonitory convulsions have been felt in many places, giving warning of what may come as a surprise when the earth shakes and opens. Terrible shocks will come upon the earth, and the lordly palaces erected at great expense will certainly become heaps of ruins. The earth's crust will be rent by the outbursts of the elements concealed in the bowels of the earth. These elements, once broken loose, will sweep away the treasures of those who for years have been adding to their wealth by securing large possessions at starvation prices from those in their employ. And the religious world, too, is to be terribly shaken; for the end of all things is at hand.--Ms 24, 1891. {3MR 312.4}

John the Revelator represents the forces of the earth as four winds, which are held in check by angels delegated to do this work. He declares: "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" [Revelation 7:1-3]. {19MR 279.1}

From this vision we can learn why so many are preserved from calamity. If these winds were allowed to blow upon the earth, they would create havoc and desolation. But the world's intricate machinery is running under the Lord's supervision. Hurricanes, threatening to break forth, are held under control by the regulations of the One who is the Protector of the trembling ones that fear God and keep His commandments. The Lord holds back the tempestuous winds. He will not suffer them to go forth on their death-mission of vengeance until His servants are sealed in their foreheads. {19MR 279.2}

Frequently we hear of earthquakes, of tempests and tornadoes, accompanied with thunder and lightning. Apparently these are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces. But God has a purpose in permitting these calamities to occur. They are one of His means of calling men and women to their senses. By unusual workings through nature God will express to doubting human agencies that which He clearly reveals in His Word. He will answer the question, "Who hath gathered the wind in His fists?" He will reveal Himself as the One who "maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind." "He bringeth the wind out of His treasuries." "The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever." "He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth." "He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: He toucheth the hills, and they smoke." {19MR 279.3}

Local disturbances in nature are permitted to take place as symbols of that which may be expected all over the world when the angels loose the four winds of the earth. The forces of nature are under the direction of an Eternal Agency. Science, in her pride, may seek to explain strange happenings on land and on sea; but science fails of tracing in these things the workings of Providence. Science fails of perceiving that intemperance is the cause of most of the frequent accidents so terrible in their results. {19MR 280.1}

Men on whom devolve grave responsibilities in safeguarding their fellow men from accident and harm, are often untrue to their trust. Because of indulgence in tobacco and liquor, they do not keep the mind clear and composed as did Daniel in the courts of Babylon. They becloud the brain by using stimulating narcotics, and temporarily lose their reasoning faculties. Many a shipwreck upon the high seas can be traced to liquor drinking. Time and again have unseen angels protected vessels on the broad ocean because on board there were some praying passengers who had faith in God's keeping power. The Lord has power to hold in abeyance the angry waves so impatient to destroy and engulf His children. {19MR 280.2}

The same Hand that kept the fiery serpents of the wilderness from entering the camp of the Israelites until God's chosen people provoked Him with their constant murmurs and complaints, is today guarding the honest in heart. Were this restraining Hand withdrawn, the enemy of our souls would at once begin the work of destruction that he has so long desired to accomplish. And because God's long-continued forbearance is not now recognized, the forces of evil are already, to a limited degree, permitted to destroy. How soon human agencies will see blotted out of existence their magnificent buildings, which are their pride! {19MR 281.1}

How often have those in danger of being destroyed by terrible outbreakings of winds and waters been mercifully shielded from harm! Do we realize that we have been spared from destruction only because of the protecting care of unseen agencies? Although many ships have gone down and many men and women on board have perished, God has mercifully spared His people. But we should not be surprised if some of those who love and fear God were to be engulfed in the tempestuous waters of the ocean. They would sleep until the Lifegiver comes to give them life. We are not to cast one word of reflection upon God or upon His manner of working. {19MR 281.2}

All these symbolical representations serve a double purpose. From them God's people learn not only that the physical forces of the earth are under the control of the Creator, but also that under His control are the religious movements of the nations. Especially is this true with reference to the enforcement of Sunday observance. He who gave His people, through His servant Moses, instruction in regard to the sanctity of the Sabbath--as recorded in Exodus 31:11-18--will in the hour of trial preserve those who keep this day as a sign of loyalty to Him. God's commandment-keeping people believe that He will fulfill His promise to protect them. By actual experience they know that the Lord sanctifies them and grants to them the seal of His approval as commandment keepers. Those who read the Scriptures with an intense desire to know what the Spirit saith unto the churches, know that God lives and reigns. {19MR 281.3}

In the last days Satan will appear as an angel of light, with great power and heavenly glory, and claim to be the Lord of the whole earth. He will declare that the Sabbath has been changed from the seventh to the first day of the week; and as lord of the first day of the week he will present this spurious sabbath as a test of loyalty to him. Then will take place the final fulfillment of the Revelator's prophecy. [Revelation 13:4-18, quoted.] {19MR 282.1}

In connection with this scripture, the entire fourteenth chapter of Revelation should be studied much by God's people. Verses nine to eleven bring to view the special message of warning against worshiping the beast and his image, and receiving his mark in the forehead or in the hand. This warning is to be given to the world by those who are mentioned in the twelfth verse as keeping "the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." {19MR 282.2}

Christ is the first and the last, the beginning and the end of the creation of God. Those who sincerely work for the salvation of souls will improve their capabilities to the utmost; and as they work unselfishly, they will have Divine assistance.--Ms 153, 1902.

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. . . In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. {CH 461.1}

The passages above make two things very clear - 1) God sometimes uses the forces of nature to cause death and destruction, and 2) God sometimes permits evil angels to use the forces of nature to cause death and destruction.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128145
10/14/10 07:16 PM
10/14/10 07:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Interesting, "God will use his enemies". Seems, if I recall correctly and ignoring what I believe it means, in the past you suggested He doesn't. Is that correct?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: kland] #128152
10/14/10 09:56 PM
10/14/10 09:56 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
That conclusion is only necessary to draw if your foundational assumtion is that beings with free will are really not free at all but need permission to do anything. If beings with free will are indeed free, then such beings with the physical capacity to create earthquakes might be doing so occationally despite of what God thinks about it.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: vastergotland] #128174
10/15/10 03:54 PM
10/15/10 03:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Thomas, do you believe evil angels are at liberty to cause death and destruction at will?

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128175
10/15/10 04:02 PM
10/15/10 04:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Quote:
God will use his enemies as instruments to punish those who have followed their own pernicious ways whereby the truth God has been misrepresented, misjudged, and dishonored. These enemies of God are living evidences of the truth of His word; they are fulfilling that which holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment. Ancient Babylon is a prime example. "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations." Evil angels, of course, are the ultimate example of God using His enemies to mete out punishment.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128196
10/15/10 11:59 PM
10/15/10 11:59 PM
Tom  Offline
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Originally Posted By: MM
The passages above make two things very clear - 1) God sometimes uses the forces of nature to cause death and destruction...


As long as we remember that inspiration often presents God as doing that which He permits, this is fine. But if we start confusing God's role with the role of the enemy, that's problematic. That is, God and Satan are not the same; they do not do the same things.

Quote:
It was generally believed by the Jews that sin is punished in this life. Every affliction was regarded as the penalty of some wrongdoing, either of the sufferer himself or of his parents. It is true that all suffering results from the transgression of God’s law, but this truth had become perverted. Satan, the author of sin and all its results, had led men to look upon disease and death as proceeding from God,—as punishment arbitrarily inflicted on account of sin. (DA 471)


Satan is the author of sin and all its results. Are death and destruction the results of sin? Most assuredly. Before sin existed, they did not exist. These are elements of Satan's government. So why would God use the elements of Satan's government to administer His own?

He doesn't. He uses the elements of agape, elements which were revealed in the life of His Son, whose "whole purpose" during His earthly mission was "the revelation of God" (ST 1/20/90). All that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of Jesus Christ, while hear in the flesh.

What did Jesus Christ reveal?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128197
10/16/10 12:03 AM
10/16/10 12:03 AM
Tom  Offline
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Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
Kland, I believe God has used His enemies on many different occasions to execute justice and judgment. Ancient Babylon is a prime example. "Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations." Evil angels, of course, are the ultimate example of God using His enemies to mete out punishment.


God destroys, but how? Like Satan does? By actively taking violent action against His enemies? Is violence an integral part of God's government?

Or does He destroy by permitting those who have chosen to act contrary to Him and His principles to experience the results of their choices?

Quote:
We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. (GC 36)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Tom] #128202
10/16/10 02:03 AM
10/16/10 02:03 AM
dedication  Online Content
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LOL -- here I haven't posted for many months, and come back and see pretty much the same people doing the same arguments and even using the same quotes! I bet you guys can quote those passages from memory, right to the book and page and paragraph!

Personally I think earthquakes are the result of natural cases, though the reason we have earthquakes at all heralds back to the flood when the perfect world was shattered.

Probably the highest level of earthquakes took place during and immediately after the flood, a time when the whole earth's crust convulsed and fragmented, and then settled back into a more or less stable condition.

Some writers suggest that there was another HUGE earthquake about 100 years after the flood -- from the text in Genesis 10:25 "In the days of Peleg was the earth divided" ---
They suggest the continents were ripped apart at that time.

Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: dedication] #128204
10/16/10 02:22 AM
10/16/10 02:22 AM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I agree with your post. Also the observation, to an extent. I certainly agree there is a lot of repetition, however there are also new ideas. For example, in another thread I discovered that Rosangela has the idea that our sinful nature changes, which is not something I recognized she believed, although we've discussed the subject for a number of years now. So there are things to learn, despite the repetition.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the number of earthquakes in the world increasing or not? [Re: Mountain Man] #128207
10/16/10 03:05 AM
10/16/10 03:05 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, do you believe evil angels are at liberty to cause death and destruction at will?
As far as they do cause death and destruction, it is by their will and against Gods will. Any other answer must mean that God wills death and destruction, which further must mean that Jesus was not the most clear example of who God is.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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