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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128245
10/18/10 03:04 PM
10/18/10 03:04 PM
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I take it you believe history is single-threaded, therefore, the future must necessarily be single-threaded if God knows the future like history. However, your view assumes God is limited to experiencing time in the same sequential way we do.
This is suggesting that God does not know future like history but in some other fashion. And He can't experience it sequential if He exists in it simultaneously. I, on the other hand, believe God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously, which means all of the above is open and multi-threaded, the beginning and the end and everything in between are happening simultaneously.
But not like history.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: kland]
#128246
10/18/10 03:19 PM
10/18/10 03:19 PM
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Genesis 6:6 says And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved at heart. Why would the Lord regret and be grieved if He knew all along that this exact thing to these exact people would happen in this exact way before He made the world? I mean, wouldn't it be expected? Now if He didn't know, but knew there was the possibility, He could very well regret that it happened so soon, or to this people, or in this way.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128264
10/20/10 04:35 PM
10/20/10 04:35 PM
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M: So, do you believe God knows all the different ways the future can play out but doesn't know precisely which one will play out?
T: It depends upon the circumstances. The future is comprised of some things which are settled, and some which aren't. Of the things which aren't, God sees all the possibilities. God could only know which of these would occur if one of these possibilities was a certainty and all of the other "possibilities" were in reality "impossibilities.
M: Please list everything you believe was/is settled.
T: That would be too long a list, but I can give some examples.
Say you are wavering over a decision, but finally make up your mind what you're going to do. Say from the moment that you finally make up your mind, it's 100% certain that you will do what you've decided to do. What was previously a possibility becomes settled.
That "Cyrus" would be the name of the ruler that would deliver Israel is an example.
There are many examples of God's declaring what He will do which are examples.
That the sun will rise tomorrow is an example. In what way was it settled that Cyrus would fulfill prohecy?
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128266
10/20/10 04:50 PM
10/20/10 04:50 PM
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M: Since you and I both agree we are free to choose as we please, as if God doesn’t exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously, what difference does it make? “It” being the fact God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. In other words, so what if time is single-threaded for God? What difference does it make? It doesn't change a thing! All things remain the same. The future is wide open in a multi-threaded sense.
T: If the future is single-threaded, that changes things! For one thing, that would mean the future is not multi-threaded. You agree with this, right? Let's start with this question. Is the future single-threaded, or multi-threaded? I mean in reality, not according to our experience. If the future is single-threaded, then it's not multi-threaded, do you agree with this? Let's continue. If the future is single-threaded, that would impact us, right? I believe God experiences time differently than we do. He exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. We do not. We experience time one day at a time, one second at a time.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128273
10/20/10 06:49 PM
10/20/10 06:49 PM
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In what way was it settled that Cyrus would fulfill prohecy? I wrote: That "Cyrus" would be the name of the ruler that would deliver Israel is an example.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128274
10/20/10 06:53 PM
10/20/10 06:53 PM
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T: If the future is single-threaded, that changes things! For one thing, that would mean the future is not multi-threaded. You agree with this, right? Let's start with this question. Is the future single-threaded, or multi-threaded? I mean in reality, not according to our experience. If the future is single-threaded, then it's not multi-threaded, do you agree with this? Let's continue. If the future is single-threaded, that would impact us, right?
M:I believe God experiences time differently than we do. He exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. Then He doesn't experience time at all. Time is simply a measure of change. In the scenario you are depicting, in relation to God, nothing is changing, hence He doesn't experience time. We do not. We experience time one day at a time, one second at a time. Because we experience change. You're not being consistent in what you're saying. Sometimes you have the future being single-threaded, and sometimes multi-threaded. How many different ways can tomorrow happen? Clearly if God has already experienced tomorrow, then tomorrow can only happen in one way. Right? That's single-threaded.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128286
10/21/10 12:46 PM
10/21/10 12:46 PM
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MM, hadn't heard if you disagreed with Rodriguez saying that Jesus' "temptation" would only be "a pantomime, a self-deceptive exercise, or an illusion", if there wasn't the real possibility of Him sinning.
This is the gist of what I heard on the news. Seems someone was wanting to blow up a building and bought a bomb from an undercover FBI agent. Only it was a fake bomb and they arrested him. For the bad guy, once he made the choice to purchase the bomb, he thought there was a real risk. However, there was no risk at all. He was only under the illusion. For the FBI, they knew there was no risk. They knew it wouldn't go off. They knew how it would end. It may not have been an "illusion" to them, but it was a fake, a charade, a pantomime. Does the bad guy, falsely thinking it was real, change whether there was a real risk?
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128289
10/21/10 01:02 PM
10/21/10 01:02 PM
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In what way was it settled that Cyrus would fulfill prohecy? I wrote: That "Cyrus" would be the name of the ruler that would deliver Israel is an example. Name = Cyrus Event = Deliver Israel Question: How could God know these specific details 100 years in advance? And, in what way were they settled?
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128292
10/21/10 05:12 PM
10/21/10 05:12 PM
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Tom, so, if the future is single-threaded (not saying it is) what difference would it make?
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128293
10/21/10 05:14 PM
10/21/10 05:14 PM
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Kland, Jesus was completley free to sin. He chose not to sin.
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