Let's look at Elijah and the bands of fifty. How did their sins cause fire to come down from above and burn them alive?

Let's consider Jesus Christ. When He was urged to destroy His enemies with fire, how did He respond?

Jesus Christ was the revelation of the Father, not Elijah. Let's start in the right place!

Let's also remember that all that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Father. We don't need to go to Elijah to learn what God is like.

Jesus shows us that God does not want people to die.

Ez. 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.

While I agree that most all the problems and disasters, sickness and destruction have come upon the world as a result of mankinds sinful doings, I cannot dismiss the Biblical revelations that at times God does step in to stop wickedness in its tracks.

On another thread I was reading about "why sin won't arise again" --
And obviously its because the saved will know and fully understand what sin does -- it brings about terrible things, cruelty, terrors, sickness, pain, heartaches, destruction -- Those are all natural consequences that sinning brings in its wake. In contrast to the joys of heaven, and the love flowing from the throne, nobody will ever again desire sin, for it will be utterly revolting to even consider.


All the saved will know that sin is terrible, and will want nothing to do with it forever.

So yes, the destruction and terrors and death in this world is a result of sin.

Yet, the Biblical record does indicate that God has (and will) at certain points stopped evil in its tracks, not allowing it to fully take over.


In the stories about "fire from heaven"
The disciples urged Jesus to command fire to come down from heaven to destroy a village that refused to invite him in. But Jesus does not force His presence upon anyone.


In the case fo Elijah, King Ahaziah, knew all about the history of Elijah and king Ahab. Yet, instead of going to Elijah to inquire of God, he "sent some of his servants to make inquiry of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether or not he would recover. These messengers were met by Elijah, with the words of stern rebuke, "Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baal-zebub the god of Ekron?"


"God had cause for displeasure at Ahaziah's impiety. What had the Lord not done to win the hearts of the people of Israel, and to inspire them with confidence in himself? For ages he had been giving his people manifestations of unexampled kindness and love. From the beginning, he had shown that his "delights were with the sons of men." He had been a very present help to all who sought him in sincerity. Yet now the king of Israel, turning from God to ask help of the worst enemy of his people, proclaimed to the heathen that he had more confidence in their idols than in the God of heaven.{RH, January 15, 1914 par. 12}{PK 211.2}

Ahaziah then sent soldiers to force Elijah to come to him. They were sent to intimidate...

Only the last captain treated the prophet with respect.

I agree with this. However, I believe that for God to step in to stop wickedness in its tracks, it is sufficient for him to release His protection:sin/Satan is that bad.

That is, God is constantly protecting us against a thousand dangers, all of them unseen. I think we are completely "off" in terms of what we think would happen if God "let go" of His protection. I think people have a good idea that God protects us from Satan, and that if God allowed Satan to cause destruction and death, it's easy to understand that, but I think people in general have no concept of how much effort is involved on God's part to prevent natural disasters.

I think people think that the normal course of action is good weather, the right amount of moisture, no earthquakes, no volcanic eruptions, no hurricanes, and so forth, and don't recognize that God is constantly working to keep our earth on course. Every day we have good weather with no natural disasters we owe to God's grace; but we take it for granted, as if this is the way things ought to be.

I believe God is constantly at work, and when He "let's go," then bad things happen, and it's not necessary for Him to do more than this.

So, would you say that God works together with Satan to cause destruction towards those He deems necessary? Kind of like a partnership?

Never as a partnership.

Though we do see satan bargaining with God in the book of Job. "You've built a hedge around Job. Just let me at Job and see if he doesn't curse you." And God says, "OK, but only so much".

The whole sin situation for the last 6000 years was allowed to play out to show the universe just what sin does. And so basically the mess this world is in is doing just that -- showing the results of sin.

When we say "God used His enemies to execute justice"
What does it mean?
Anyone who has studied history is appalled by the greed for power inherent in mankind. Generals marshelling their forces to go out and conquer and kill and capture. The intrique, plotting, betrayal, that fills the history books is mindboggling.

So we see nations around Israel rising to power and going out to do what these power hunger generals do. When God's protection was over Israel, no army how ever strong could conquer them, but when they went after other gods, then whatever nation was on the rise in power subjected them, conquered their cities, took their people as slaves, etc. They had no protection.

A lot of things that are attributed as "Acts of God" aren't from God at all, but the result of mankinds actions and misuse of the gifts God has given.

However, there are times when God does act --
When the earth opens and swallows the three ring leaders in rebellion in Moses time, I don't think it was chance, or satan. In fact if you read the story in PP the people said it was satan's power, but it was made very plain that it was NOT satan.

Sure God acts. But how does He act? Just like Satan? What's the difference?

There doesn't appear to be any difference whatsoever. The only difference would be the motives. And that begs the question if we're simply talking about the ends justifying the means. Or is there some difference between how God and Satan act? (i.e., a difference in their behavior).

Regarding the earth swallowing up the rebels, why couldn't this have been an earthquake? What would the choice have to be either God or Satan? This gets back to the post I wrote previously, that I believe God's activities in keeping nature acting properly is vastly underestimated.

Jesus rebuked John's spirit. He did not speak against the act of punishment. It was Jesus who sent the fire that burned alive the bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayer.

No.

No, this isn't what happened. Jesus spoke against the act, and against the spirit, because of the act. Jesus explained that He did not come to destroy but to save, and this is where John's error lied, and yours as well, IMO. That is, you view God (and Jesus) as Beings who destroy and cause death. Based on the amount of time you spend discussing these attributes in relation to other attributes of God (and Jesus), you appear to believe these are the most important things God (and Jesus) do(es).

We disagree in that I believe that destruction and Satan are things which pertain to the realm of sin/Satan, not God/Jesus. I view God and Jesus as doing good things, not things which are the fruit of sin.