Thus, since God is the ultimate reality, time does not exist.

Since eternity has already happened, the future is single-threaded, just like the past is.

How do you understand statements like this?



or this?



If the future has already happened, how could God have been expecting grapes, instead of wild grapes? How could God change His mind?

This was referring to the angels being concerned if sin will rise a second time. Why are they concerned if it's the same as history. And if angels experience time as us, why doesn't God inform them?

The questions above seem to assume God existing in the past, present, and future simultaneously alters or eliminates time. However, God's experience in time and space has no effect on how things play out. The future is wide open. No limitations.

I've asked a number of times for some confirmation that you've understood the point being made. I'm going to explain this again, and ask that you please respond to my request to state what I'm about to tell you in your own words, so I have some confirmation that you've understood that point.

The point is not that God's existence, or knowledge, somehow alters time, but that if the statements you are making are true, that has logical implications, which involve time.

Do you understand this? If so, please confirm by restating the point in your own words.

My apologies if what I've been trying to communicate hasn't been clear.

MM, a question for you. Did you understand Thomas' comment here? Not if you agree with it, but if you understand the point. If so, please state in your own words what Thomas is saying.

The reason for these requests for confirmation is that it seems that a lot of time is being spent repeating the same points. I'm trying to see if we can improve the communication process, and am hoping that the requests for confirmation will help.

Thanks.

I disagree that anything I am saying about God's experience in time and space has any effect whatsoever on time and space so far as how it impacts our experience in time and space. Just because God exists inside and outside our time-space continuum, just because eternity has already played out - it does not mean we are not truly free to choose as we please and impact the future. We live in the present, therefore, the future is wide open. I understand you believe my view of God and His experience in time and space necessarily has logical implications which involve time. But I disagree. I think it makes no difference. All things remain the same. Time plays out as if the future did not exist.

But it must. How God experiences things corresponds to how things really are, and how things really are must have an effect on how we experience them.



Of course it does. This would mean the future is settled already, and we can't change a settled future.



Just in terms of our perception, but not in reality. The future is settled, if it's already played out. Obviously. Just think about what "already played out" means.



Good! I'm glad you're understanding the point I've been making.



Let's say your wrong, and God doesn't exist in the past, present and future simultaneously. Instead, God experiences time sequentially, like we do. You really don't see that this has logical implications?



But under your assumptions, as Thomas pointed out, time does not exist. To say it another way, things do not happen sequentially.

Tom, you are, of course, free to disagree with me. But if I am right about God's experience in time and space then my view is perfectly logical. But if you reject my view, if you believe God cannot exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously without making it our reality and settled, then nothing else I say about it will make sense.

By the way, God does experience time sequentially like we do. It just so happens that He also experiences it sequentially in the past and future simultaneously.