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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128416
10/27/10 01:53 PM
10/27/10 01:53 PM
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I thought I included this idea in my summary above. "None of the gazillion possible outcomes" = "all the possibilities".
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128420
10/27/10 02:37 PM
10/27/10 02:37 PM
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You wrote: Seems like you base it on your idea that God knows everyones character so well that none of the gazillion possible outcomes includes anyone sinning. This means that God's knowing everyone's character causes the gazillion possible outcomes not to include sinning. But it's not that God knows these characters that causes them not to include sinning, but the characters themselves. So there's two things going on: 1.God knows the character of those in heaven, and knows that characters such as these are "safe to save," that such individuals won't rebel. 2.God can see all of the possibilities, and none of these include sin. You wrote things in such a way that that gazillion possibilities were dependent upon God's knowing the character of each one.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128434
10/27/10 04:08 PM
10/27/10 04:08 PM
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What was it about the characters of the holy angels that prevented God from seeing no possibility of them sinning? And, what is it about the characters of all the babies that will be taken to heaven that prevents God from seeing the possibility they might sin?
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128440
10/27/10 05:18 PM
10/27/10 05:18 PM
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What was it about the characters of the holy angels that prevented God from seeing no possibility of them sinning? And, what is it about the characters of all the babies that will be taken to heaven that prevents God from seeing the possibility they might sin? And that is getting back to the question asked in this thread.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: kland]
#128454
10/27/10 11:58 PM
10/27/10 11:58 PM
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What was it about the characters of the holy angels that prevented God from seeing no possibility of them sinning? And, what is it about the characters of all the babies that will be taken to heaven that prevents God from seeing the possibility they might sin? I wrote: 1.God knows the character of those in heaven, and knows that characters such as these are "safe to save," that such individuals won't rebel.
2.God can see all of the possibilities, and none of these include sin.
You wrote things in such a way that that gazillion possibilities were dependent upon God's knowing the character of each one. These are two things, hence, the numbers "1" and "2." Why are you linking these as if they were one? I pointed this out, in the last sentence above, and you wrote another post doing the same thing. I don't know why you're doing this. Regarding babies, point 2 applies. Regarding the other question, you're linking these two points together, like you did for the "gazillion" question.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128455
10/28/10 12:00 AM
10/28/10 12:00 AM
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And that is getting back to the question asked in this thread. Regarding angels: Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. Henceforth his work was restricted. Whatever attitude he might assume, he could no longer await the angels as they came from the heavenly courts, and before them accuse Christ's brethren of being clothed with the garments of blackness and the defilement of sin. The last link of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world was broken. (DA 761) I think the same thing applies for other sentient beings. That is, what assures that sin won't arise again is the conviction regarding God's character, and that of sin/Satan, which is spoken of above.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128464
10/28/10 12:42 PM
10/28/10 12:42 PM
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"He loses patience and will kill you" is an unfortunate way of dumbing it down.
In what way do you smarten it up?
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Tom]
#128467
10/28/10 01:31 PM
10/28/10 01:31 PM
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M: What was it about the characters of the holy angels that prevented God from seeing no possibility of them sinning? And, what is it about the characters of all the babies that will be taken to heaven that prevents God from seeing the possibility they might sin?
T: I wrote: 1. God knows the character of those in heaven, and knows that characters such as these are "safe to save," that such individuals won't rebel. 2. God can see all of the possibilities, and none of these include sin. You wrote things in such a way that that gazillion possibilities were dependent upon God's knowing the character of each one.
These are two things, hence, the numbers "1" and "2." Why are you linking these as if they were one? I pointed this out, in the last sentence above, and you wrote another post doing the same thing. I don't know why you're doing this.
Regarding babies, point 2 applies. Regarding the other question, you're linking these two points together, like you did for the "gazillion" question. Why separate the two? Are you implying 2 has nothing to do with 1 as to why God knows sinning will never reoccur? If so, what does He base 2 on (if not on the character traits of those living throughout the universe)? Also, you say none of the FMAs throughout the universe will have character traits that result in sinning, therefore, God knows none of them will choose to sin. How do they differ from those who lived throughout the universe before the evil angels sinned? Did the angels who eventually sinned have character traits that result in sinning? And, did the angels and other beings who did not sin lack the character traits that result in sinning? And, the babies taken to heaven, what is it about them that enables God to know they will not sin? That is, how can He know none of the future possibilities involve them sinning? Does He base 2 on their character traits? Or, does He base 2 on the character traits of their parents? If so, what if only one parent inherited eternal life and the another didn't because they had character traits that result in sinning?
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: kland]
#128468
10/28/10 01:37 PM
10/28/10 01:37 PM
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M: "He loses patience and will kill you" is an unfortunate way of dumbing it down.
K: In what way do you smarten it up? It is a delicate truth. It demands finesse. Ellen describes it with the necessary tact: God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}
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Re: How can it be assured sin won't rise a second time?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128476
10/28/10 05:40 PM
10/28/10 05:40 PM
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Because I was giving two different reasons in answer to your question. Are you implying 2 has nothing to do with 1 as to why God knows sinning will never reoccur? I'm not implying either that it does or it doesn't by giving two reasons, but there's no reason for you to lump them together. If so, what does He base 2 on (if not on the character traits of those living throughout the universe)? This is 2: 2. God can see all of the possibilities, and none of these include sin. He bases this on what He foresees. God forsees everything that can possibly happen. Also, you say none of the FMAs throughout the universe will have character traits that result in sinning, therefore, God knows none of them will choose to sin. That's not what I said. I said that one of the reasons that God knows sin will not arise again is because He knows the character of those who will be resurrected. How do they differ from those who lived throughout the universe before the evil angels sinned? They have lived in a Universe that had the Great Controversy, and the cross. Did the angels who eventually sinned have character traits that result in sinning? All the of the angels, and all created beings, were created with free will and had the possibility of either choosing to sin or not sin. When the Great Controversy happened, and the cross, that resulted in people (beings) choosing one side or another, and being settled in their choices. By the way, you misquoted me, and asked me a question about that misquote. I just want it to be clear that by my answering your question, I'm not agreeing with the implicit assumption of that question. And, did the angels and other beings who did not sin lack the character traits that result in sinning? Same answer. And, the babies taken to heaven, what is it about them that enables God to know they will not sin? That is, how can He know none of the future possibilities involve them sinning? How children are raised, even as very young infants, has an effect on their character development, and whether they would be happy in heaven or not. God can foresee which infants would be happy in heaven, and which wouldn't be. Does He base 2 on their character traits? Here is 2 again: 2.God can see all of the possibilities, and none of these include sin. Why do you think this is based on something, other than God being able to foresee all possibilities? Or, does He base 2 on the character traits of their parents? If so, what if only one parent inherited eternal life and the another didn't because they had character traits that result in sinning? Same question.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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