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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: kland]
#128543
11/01/10 05:34 PM
11/01/10 05:34 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I believe the Father is a physical being, and that He is physically present everywhere at the same time. There is no such thing as non-physical being. You have yet to answer my question - Do you believe God is a physical being and that He is physically present everywhere at the same time? If so, please explain it logically. If not, what do you believe about it? And, concerning reality, I take it you disagree with my view.
I had not answered your question as I needed you to define it since you often create a different definition of terms than expected. For example, if you should ask if I believe in evolution and I said, yes, you may think I believe in molecules to man which would be incorrect. That's why you need to define terms. Since it at least appears you are taking a normal definition of "physically present" I can now answer your question. I believe in absolute morality, absolute reality, and I believe God and Jesus are not physically present everywhere at the same time. I have never seen Him, touched Him, nor found space displaced by Him. Jesus also said He would send the Holy Spirit because He could not be with them, but would return, and take them to be with His Father. This is not saying the Holy Spirit is physically present, but as part of God, He is in our thoughts and minds - but not physically. Since you do not believe the Father is physically present everywhere at the same time it helps explain why you feel my view of God's experience in time and space is illogical.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128544
11/01/10 05:39 PM
11/01/10 05:39 PM
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SDA
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By the way, the way a person can know if a prophecy is conditional or unconditional is simple - the remaining unfulfilled prophecies will play out in perfect accordance with the SOP. There is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the SOP. It is too plain to mistake or misunderstand.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: vastergotland]
#128551
11/02/10 02:22 AM
11/02/10 02:22 AM
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T:This (still) doesn't address the question! You're saying that reality is that from this "point of view" the future is wide open. But "point of view" is NOT reality. Reality is NOT opinion, or point of view or perception. Reality is what is. Is the future "already played out"? Or is it "wide open"? Which? (You may choose one).
M:The future is wide open. Although the future isn't reality, at least not yet. It is not reality until it becomes present or past. Then your previous statement that it has already played out is incorrect.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128552
11/02/10 02:25 AM
11/02/10 02:25 AM
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Posts: 14,795
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Since you do not believe the Father is physically present everywhere at the same time it helps explain why you feel my view of God's experience in time and space is illogical. Kland defined his terms by saying: I have never seen Him, touched Him, nor found space displaced by Him. So you have seen God or Christ, touched Him, or found space displayed by Him? And this is important for understanding your view of God's experience in time and space how?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128553
11/02/10 02:27 AM
11/02/10 02:27 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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By the way, the way a person can know if a prophecy is conditional or unconditional is simple - the remaining unfulfilled prophecies will play out in perfect accordance with the SOP. There is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the SOP. It is too plain to mistake or misunderstand. This doesn't apply to Scripture? Why not?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128568
11/02/10 03:56 PM
11/02/10 03:56 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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By the way, the way a person can know if a prophecy is conditional or unconditional is simple - the remaining unfulfilled prophecies will play out in perfect accordance with the SOP. There is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the SOP. It is too plain to mistake or misunderstand. This doesn't apply to Scripture? Why not? The Bible is a prophecy. The SOP is an interpretation.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128569
11/02/10 04:00 PM
11/02/10 04:00 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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T:This (still) doesn't address the question! You're saying that reality is that from this "point of view" the future is wide open. But "point of view" is NOT reality. Reality is NOT opinion, or point of view or perception. Reality is what is. Is the future "already played out"? Or is it "wide open"? Which? (You may choose one).
M:The future is wide open. Although the future isn't reality, at least not yet. It is not reality until it becomes present or past. Then your previous statement that it has already played out is incorrect. Not at all. If you believe God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously, without it affecting how we experience time and space, then it is perfectly logical.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128570
11/02/10 04:04 PM
11/02/10 04:04 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Since you do not believe the Father is physically present everywhere at the same time it helps explain why you feel my view of God's experience in time and space is illogical. Kland defined his terms by saying: I have never seen Him, touched Him, nor found space displaced by Him. So you have seen God or Christ, touched Him, or found space displayed by Him? And this is important for understanding your view of God's experience in time and space how? If Kland cannot explain how God can be physically everywhere at the same time what right does he have to find fault with my view of God's experience in time and space? Besides, if I remember right, you do not believe God is omnipresent, that is, that He is physically everywhere at the same time. You believe God "is a Spirit" means He is not physically everywhere at the same time.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128574
11/02/10 05:54 PM
11/02/10 05:54 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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M:By the way, the way a person can know if a prophecy is conditional or unconditional is simple - the remaining unfulfilled prophecies will play out in perfect accordance with the SOP. There is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the SOP. It is too plain to mistake or misunderstand.
T:This doesn't apply to Scripture? Why not?
M:The Bible is a prophecy. The SOP is an interpretation. Do you mean in general? Or do you have some specific instance in mind? By saying: There is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the SOP. It is too plain to mistake or misunderstand. it sounds like you're saying: It is not the case that there is nothing unclear, obscure, or ambiguous about it in the Bible. The Bible is not too plain to mistake or misunderstand. This correctly represents your point?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: How Can a Person Know if a Prophecy is Conditional or Unconditional? - Part 2
[Re: Tom]
#128575
11/02/10 06:00 PM
11/02/10 06:00 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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M:The future is wide open. Although the future isn't reality, at least not yet. It is not reality until it becomes present or past.
T:Then your previous statement that it has already played out is incorrect.
M:Not at all. Of course it is. "Already played out" means not "wide open." These concepts are mutually exclusive. If you believe God exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously, without it affecting how we experience time and space, then it is perfectly logical. Sounds like you're advocating a religion where contradictions don't matter, where "white is black" and "black is white." You're statement that it is perfectly logical to assert that the future has played out, yet is wide open, that if one believes that God exists in the past, present and future simultaneously without effecting how we experience time, which misses the point. When you say "how we experience" time and space, this gets into the realm of perception. Reality is not about perception, but what is. You're still confusing the two, which is what I think leads you to make the contradictory statements you make. How we experience time and space involves our perception, but our perception can be wrong. We experience the future to be "wide open," but if it has "already played out," then it is not *really* "wide open": it has "already played out"! Our perception, in this case, is out of kilter with reality. Which is the point I've been making all along. This is a weakness of your viewpoint. It makes our perception of the future into an illusion. It's not really "wide open." It's really "played out." We merely experience it as "wide open."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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