T: Of course God's experience is different than ours. Even our experiences are different. This has no bearing on the subject, however. Reality is affected by our experiences.

I'm glad you agree God's experience in time and space includes experiences ours cannot. What do you think accounts for it?

Why does God's experience in time and space include experiences ours cannot?

This is a simple question. Here are the choices.

a.The future is in reality wide open (multi-threaded).
b.The future is in reality not wide open (instead, it's single-threaded).

You didn't answer my question. You just repeated what you said.

If the future wide open (i.e. multi-threaded, multiple possibilities), or fixed (i.e., settled, single-threaded, only one possibility.

It looks like you're contradicting yourself on this question. In some places you say it's wide open, but in others you say it's played out.

This is a simple question. Here are the choices.

a.The future is in reality wide open (multi-threaded).
b.The future is in reality not wide open (instead, it's single-threaded).

You should be able to answer "a" or "b". This would be preferable to a long-winded response, especially a repeated one, that doesn't answer the question.

If you first answer the question, (i.e. "a" or "b"), and then elaborate on why you answered it "a" or "b", that would be fine.

As we live and breathe, the future is wide open.

If I'm understanding it correctly, you need to qualify it for MM by saying:

a.The future is in our reality wide open (multi-threaded).
b.The future is in our reality not wide open (instead, it's single-threaded).

And you understand this to mean that Jesus did not undertake a risk?



No, MM. You really should be more careful in how you represent the position of others. I have at no time written anything about "no idea," and I've repeatedly called this misrepresentation to your attention. Please stop this.



I haven't made this assertion. I've asserted that He undertook a risk, and I've provided evidence to back this assertion.



If the chance He would sin and fail was 0%, He undertook no risk, and the whole thing was a sham.

T: I'd like to go back to the problem of evil, MM. To your way of thinking, God deliberately chose to do things in such a way that sin was inevitable, which is to say that God chose for sin to happen. Do you agree with this? I'll break this down into two points:

1.God deliberately chose to do things in such a way that sin was inevitable. (You should agree to this point, since you've said this in the past).

2.God chose for sin to happen. (You haven't said this, so you might disagree, but it seems to me to follow from the first point. Do you disagree?)

Assuming that God did set into motion a course of action which made sin inevitable (this is actually the correct wording, in terms of what you've asserted in the past), there must be some reason for God to have done so. You've quoted that God would "establish His throne in righteousness," which implies that without sin, God would not have been able to do so.

Why not? What is God dependent upon sin? Do you not see an inherent problem with such a situation, with God needing sin to establish His throne in righteousness? If you say He didn't need sin to establish His throne in righteousness, then we're right back to the same question as to why God set into motion a course of action which made sin inevitable.

M: I don't know why the Godhead elected to create the FMAs they knew with absolute certainty would sin and die. . . . [post truncated and quotes omitted by Tom]

T: You've made clear you don't know why you believe what you do regarding the idea you have. I don't think your idea makes sense, and you apparently don't either. If at some point you see some sense for why you believe what you do, you could share that, and we could continue our discussion. Until then, I invite you to consider that possibility that your thinking might be wrong. You may be simply misinterpreting the passages which lead you to the conclusions you don't understand.

I think having a point of view that one understands in regards to the problem of evil is preferable, especially as this is a subject which weighs so heavily on the minds of so many. Many people want to know how an all-powerful, all-loving God could create such a world as we have, full of suffering and injustice. As SDA's, we have a wonderful answer to give, which involves the Great Controversy. Saying that God created beings He was certain would sin isn't an answer that satisfies.

But known unto God are all His works, and from eternal ages the covenant of grace (unmerited favor) existed in the mind of God. It is called the everlasting covenant; for the plan of salvation was not conceived after the fall of man, but it was that which was "kept in silence through times eternal, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith." Romans 16:25, 26, A. R. V. {ST, December 15, 1914 par. 2}

The purpose and plan of grace existed from all eternity. Before the foundation of the world it was according to the determinate counsel of God that man should be created and endowed with power to do the divine will. The fall of man, with all its consequences, was not hidden from the Omnipotent. Redemption was not an afterthought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam, but an eternal purpose, suffered to be wrought out for the blessing not only of this atom of a world, but for the good of all the worlds that God had created. {ST, December 15, 1914 par. 3}

Before Him who rules in the heavens, the mysteries of the past and the future are alike outspread; and God sees, beyond the woe and darkness and ruin that sin has wrought, the outworking of His purpose of love and blessing. Though clouds and darkness are round about Him, yet righteousness and judgment are the foundation of His throne. {ST, December 15, 1914 par. 4}

Oops! This should read, "Reality is NOT affected by our experience."



Everybody's experiences are unique. That should especially so for God doesn't seem difficult to understand.



Again, everybody's experiences are unique.

What does this mean? Does is mean something different than "The future is, in reality, wide open"? I hope so, because this is the question I'm asking. Otherwise you're answering some other question which I'm not asking. If so, please answer the question I am asking.

Yes, as we live and breathe, the future is, in reality, wide open. We are totally, completely, absolutely free to choose as we please.