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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: vastergotland]
#128954
11/17/10 04:45 PM
11/17/10 04:45 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Thomas, do you think the 25 questions apply to us, too?
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: vastergotland]
#128959
11/17/10 06:12 PM
11/17/10 06:12 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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As can be clearly seen in for instance paragraph 440:2, Ellen is asking the minister and gospel worker "Are you walking the talk?".
I am sure Ellen somewhere asks questions such as these of the ordinary believer, but here, this particular set of questions is specifically directed to those who have made proclamation of the gospel their profession.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: vastergotland]
#128969
11/17/10 08:09 PM
11/17/10 08:09 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried." Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.) {COL 155.1}
Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. This first quote speaks to the dangers of thinking "I am saved" and trusting to oneself. It is not the fear of punishment, or the hope of everlasting reward, that leads the disciples of Christ to follow Him. They behold the Saviour's matchless love, revealed throughout His pilgrimage on earth, from the manger of Bethlehem to Calvary's cross, and the sight of Him attracts, it softens and subdues the soul. Love awakens in the heart of the beholders. They hear His voice, and they follow Him. {DA 480.3} This brings out that the followers of Christ are actuated by a higher motivation than concern for self. I believe that if it is our hearts desire to honor Christ, the question of our salvation will take care of itself.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: vastergotland]
#128980
11/18/10 01:21 AM
11/18/10 01:21 AM
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OP
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Posts: 22,256
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As can be clearly seen in for instance paragraph 440:2, Ellen is asking the minister and gospel worker "Are you walking the talk?".
I am sure Ellen somewhere asks questions such as these of the ordinary believer, but here, this particular set of questions is specifically directed to those who have made proclamation of the gospel their profession. Yes, Ellen was addressing pastors. But, do you think any of the 25 questions do not apply to us?
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128981
11/18/10 01:27 AM
11/18/10 01:27 AM
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Tom, do you think the 25 questions Ellen asked are appropriate for us today? Or, do you think they were merely rhetorical, asked for effect, not intended to be answered?
Referring to the questions, Ellen wrote, "You need not be in uncertainty in this matter." "Let not the question remain in perilous uncertainty." "Let no one deceive his own soul in this matter."
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128990
11/18/10 03:43 AM
11/18/10 03:43 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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I think we'd be best spending our time meditating upon the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes. As I wrote: The followers of Christ are actuated by a higher motivation than concern for self.
I believe that if it is our hearts desire to honor Christ, the question of our salvation will take care of itself.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#128999
11/18/10 08:56 AM
11/18/10 08:56 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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As can be clearly seen in for instance paragraph 440:2, Ellen is asking the minister and gospel worker "Are you walking the talk?".
I am sure Ellen somewhere asks questions such as these of the ordinary believer, but here, this particular set of questions is specifically directed to those who have made proclamation of the gospel their profession. Yes, Ellen was addressing pastors. But, do you think any of the 25 questions do not apply to us? What I question with your list of 25 questions is why you so badly wish to turn a concise chapter on the importance of pastor authenticity into a list of holiness-by-lifting-yourself-in-your-bootstraps prooftexts?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: vastergotland]
#129020
11/19/10 04:21 PM
11/19/10 04:21 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Are there any of the 25 questions that are inappropriate for believers to ask and answer nowadays?
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129023
11/19/10 04:51 PM
11/19/10 04:51 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Mike, the issue here is that Ellen did not write 25 questions to be or not to be asked. She wrote a book. This suffers the same faults as any other prooftexting, the detachement of context. What I would like to have you answer is, is there any reason why it is more appropriate to remove the context from around these questions compared with keeping the text as it was once written?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Ask and answer the question - Am I saved or lost?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129024
11/19/10 04:53 PM
11/19/10 04:53 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves" (2 Corinthians 13:5). Closely criticize the temper, the disposition, the thoughts, words, inclinations, purposes, and deeds. How can we ask intelligently for the things we need unless we prove by the Scriptures the condition of our spiritual health? {1SM 89.1}
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith" (2 Corinthians 13:5). Some conscientious souls, on reading this, immediately begin to criticize their every feeling and emotion. But this is not correct self-examination. It is not the petty feelings and emotions that are to be examined. The life, the character, is to be measured by the only standard of character, God's holy law. The fruit testifies to the character of the tree. Our works, not our feelings, bear witness of us. {HP 131.2}
Dear brethren, “examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith.” [2 Corinthians 13:5.] Many may respond, “Why, yes, I am in the faith; I believe every point of the truth.” But do you practice what you believe? Are you at peace with God and with your brethren? Can you pray with sincerity, “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”? [Matthew 6:12.] Or are you estranged from your brother, because you think he has injured you? Are there no heart-burnings among you? Is there no bitterness in your hearts, no envying, no jealousy, no evil surmising, no misjudging of your brethren? Is there no emulation, no desire for special favor or honors, no wish to have the supremacy? These feelings should not exist among Christians. {GW92 429.2}
I warn all who profess the name of Christ to closely examine them-selves and make full and thorough confession of all their wrongs, that they may go beforehand to judgment, and that the recording angel may write pardon opposite their names. {1T 263}
It is true that there may be an outward correctness of deportment without the renewing power of Christ. The love of influence and the desire for the esteem of others may produce a well-ordered life. Self-respect may lead us to avoid the appearance of evil. A selfish heart may perform generous actions. By what means, then, shall we determine whose side we are on? {SC 58.1} Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ's, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. All we have and are is consecrated to Him. We long to bear His image, breathe His spirit, do His will, and please Him in all things. {SC 58.2}
This daily review of our acts, to see whether conscience approves or condemns, is necessary for all who wish to reach perfection of Christian character. (GW 275)
We are not to pass on indifferently. We must inquire into the character of our thoughts and feelings, our tempers, purposes, words, and deeds. We are not safe unless we are constantly and successfully warring against our own sinful corruptions. We must consider whether we are an example of Christian holiness, whether we are in the faith. Unless we search diligently examining our hearts in the light of God's Word, self-love will prompt to a much better opinion of ourselves than we should have. We must not be so earnest in our efforts to set others right that we shall neglect our own souls. We need not be so zealous for our brethren and in this zeal neglect the work that needs to be done for ourselves. Another's wrong will not make our cases any nearer right. There is an individual work to be done for ourselves, which we should in no wise neglect. . . . {TDG 83.3}
Many are sensible of their great deficiency, and they read, and pray, and resolve, and yet make no progress. They seem to be powerless to resist temptation. The reason is, they do not go deep enough. They do not seek for a thorough conversion of the soul, that the streams which issue from it may be pure, and the deportment may testify that Christ reigns within. All defects of character originate in the heart. Pride, vanity, evil temper, and covetousness proceed from the carnal heart unrenewed by the grace of Christ. If the heart is refined, softened, and ennobled, the words and actions will testify to the fact. When the soul has been entirely surrendered to God, there will be a firm reliance upon His promises, and earnest prayer and determined effort to control the words and actions. {OHC 336.4}
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